As a EWR 777 FO I can agree that 117 blows, primarily after a marathon overnight in shanghai! I Feel like sh!t coming home after the 4 day vs the 3 day, but hey a bunch of government funded scientists have concluded that this is safer!
We can complain all day on these boards, but what we need to do is file an fsap report everytime you fly and if necessary call in fatigued.
We all know that this rule was a typical knee jerk one size fits all reaction by the FAA and now we are ALL paying the price!

Here's what I find is the most difficult about FAR 117, it's harder to bid. Yep, that's right, because of the moving time periods I end up having more time off than in the past. That seems to be only bad for those who want to work more. Frankly as an international pilot I have never exceeded 86 hours pay and normally get about 80-83 with 18 days off.

Before 117 I could group trips, fly the same trip three weeks in a row or more. Now I'm forced to have a week off between trips at times and very few trips can be flown back to back.

Yea, it makes bidding more difficult.

The 117 rest and duty rules still never solved the problem of 2 crew-members commuting across the country and being up all night in the crew room before starting a long 4 day trip and crashing a plane.... I agree with all of the posts. My days off every month have been less and my efficiancy during my work days has been less. It sucks!

Sorry, I will excercise better thread discipline in the future.Well, they've done neither.

A4A didn't fight 117 tooth and nail because it requires less pilots! It requires more pilots and more money. Too bad. Oh, it didn't help us here at UAL much. Our contract was already pretty restrictive. In fact, many parts or 117 look like our old contract (duty restrictions based on legs and show times, 8 hrs behind the door). BUT, it did level the playing field. No more dirt bag outfit legal to start legal to finish. No more pt121 out, pt 91 back "legal" trips. 8:45 between duty assignments. We're all playing by the same rules now. Even Mesa, Spirit, ALL of them. I consider 117 a triumph. Along with KCM, that makes 2. Politics matter.

We have all been living with it for only 8 months. For me, it is ultimately bad because it is too complicated.

There are some really bad provisions, the dumbest is the idea of acclimatizing to a time zone other than your home one. Who on earth wants to fly half way around the world, get used to it, and fly back. I have done it and much prefer 24-30 hour layovers, keep my body clock the same, and go home.

However there are also some good, common sense provisions. Some of these are very manpower positive as well. Under the old rules, I can't tell you how many dozens of times I have shown up for work to a 4-10 hour delay, and then had to fly a 12-14 hour duty day. This can't happen anymore, and has gotten me 3 "bought" trips in the last few months.

Hopefully 117 will be a "living" rule. I don't do long haul anymore, but I would vote for getting rid of the "acclimatizing layover" away from home. I want to get there, take a snooze, a run, couple adult beverages with dinner and go to bed, and then fly home.

At least it makes someone lie about it when they declare themselves fit for duty.

It has also completely ended company pushback on fatigue calls. In the ones I've done since 4 Jan the only comment I get from scheduler, FODM, etc is "ok." Last time the hotels desk had a room and transport arranged before I got to the curb.

What I find interesting about 117 is since its inception I haven't gone illegal once on an international flight. In the six months prior to that I walked 4 times, once with a single augmented crew, once at a diversion station and twice for gate delays.

The difference was in the past I (and my crew) could wave and keep flying if we felt safe now the rules are hard coded with zero ambiguity. Yes there was one time we had to request the extra pay per the contract, but before I made the call my crew all agreed together what we would do if denied the contractual extra pay to fly the 117 wave.

So could the problem for some really be 117 tells them what they can or can't do? Hmmmm...

Don't know why you mention Mesa and Spirit by name, but Spirit's scheduling section was already more restrictive than FAR 117 to begin with. If anything, maybe it should read "Even Mesa, Continental, ALL of them."