Whats with the jackets?
 

Question from a relatively new guy. As its starting to get cooler, ive noticed quite a few guys and guys wearing black fleece jackets over their uniform while working. Usually its a Northface or Eddie Bauer type jacket. Im just curious is this permitted per company policy? Im not trying to play uniform police by any means, im honestly wondering if this is an accepted part of the uniform. I just think it looks kind of tacky when a 767 captain walks up to the gate wearing a black northface over his/her uniform.

Northgate > trench coat mafia

It's a beta test.

Yes it would look tacky; they should wear Carharts!

You ain't seen nothin' yet! On October 15 you'll see a dozen different uniforms. Hats, no hats, jacket, leather jackets from UAL vendor with and without velcro wings, leather jackets from the Turkey made with varying leathers and grain, leather jackets from previous job that is "close enough," even old LUAL and LCAL uniforms, epaulettes and pant styles.

At least they showed up for work.

I don't get it. When are we suppose to wear hats - Only with coats but if in shirt sleeves no hat..what. I absolutely do not like hats but if the company that signs my paycheck,tell me to, then I'll wear their stupid hat

Hats with the coat. Read the FOM. It's all spelled out in there.

Yep, jump seated with a guy that had his Navy wings on instead of United wings. Wasn't sure what to think of it.

Folks are wearing LCAL or LUAL wings, ties, epaulettes, hats. Shoes, boots, black sneakers whatever.

We should all wear something different until Jeffy and his minions unscrew this place.

You've been on property like a year? Maybe two now?

Yep everything you need to know is in the FOM..;)

The whole uniform thing is truly asinine. This faux military garb has its roots in early commercial aviation when they were attempting to calm pax by making them think they were being taken care of by military "type" folks.

And the hat looks absolutely foolish on some. It reminds me of Ralph Kramden and his bus driver uniform.

We could all wear prom dresses and it would make no difference to anyone.

You certainly wont see a bunch of hat wearing L-UAL guys whenever "hat season" begins. In my view, that's more than a fair trade off for the ten year beating we took until Delta gave us a contract.

This has been shown both by ALPA and by the company to be incorrect. The public perception of what a "pilot" is includes the full monty with the hat and they (the public) "feel" better when you wear it.

Try this for an experiment: Go one month wearing a NorthFace fleece and no hat then switch to the regulation jacket and hat and count the number of times passengers engage and or comment positively to you in both cases.

I'm not a rah-rah hat guy, but I am willing to admit that it does make a big difference in public perception, and if the folks writing my paycheck are asking me to wear the uniform and my union is onboard then I have no problem doing as asked. There's no harm in looking professional, and a 3 or 4 man cockpit crew wearing the full uniform together draws significantly more attention and respect than a bunch of guys walking together with NorthFace fleeces.

Maybe just maybe wearing the uniform DOES matter and DOES improve our professional image which certainly can't hurt and doesn't actually cost you anything personally. Why else does ALPA ask us to show up when picketing with the full uniform?

Here is something everyone needs to remember....

Yes, the company writes the check, but ALPA is the one that told the company how much to make it out for.

So I always make sure my ALPA pin is being displayed proudly.

We don't have a uniform policy. We have "guidelines."

The company has chosen NOT to engage on enforcement of the policy as they feel it would not promote unity and perhaps be a fight they can win, but the cost of winning would detract from solving more important problems. They are really hoping that good examples will rub off and we will police ourselves. And, really that's how it should be. I think we are big boys and girls who can take care of this on our own. If we want to be treated as professionals first we need to look like professionals. But, that's my opinion.

Jump seating or non revving with an over garment is a good idea. It minimizes people bugging you or disturbing you while off duty and makes for a more pleasurable travel experience.

But, Navy wings? really?? Haven't seen that one yet.

Gee, if that's what the Cool kids are doing, then I'm not going to wear a hat either.

Are we in High School?

The current costume we wear isn't worth of Navy wings being on it anywhere, even as a lapel pin.

yep. A year and half. I thought it was a legit question. Sorry if I missed the sarcasm.

My hat makes my hair flat and sweaty in the summer. I hate it. I only wear it if it rains. Of course for a while none of the L-UAL guys wore them. Great idea unless you are bald and you create a bit of glare with that shiny polished look. :-)

Good Lord, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Did they tell them what to do with my pension?

I am not sure how the hat is related to the fleece Sunvox. I haven't worn the hat in years and I wear the leather jacket in the winter time, I assure you that our customers treat me with the same respect that they treat you. My clothes are clean and pressed and my weight is in proportion to height. What study did ALPA do that determined we should be wearing hats? ALPA instructed me to not wear my hat when it specifically stated that I should in the FOM during the " hats on/hats off campaign", because of this practice, the company modified the policy to make it optional for a long period. The FOM states that the uniform hat must be worn with the uniform coat between October 15 and April 15. There is nothing in the FOM about wearing the hat when wearing the optional leather "jacket".

I disagree. I think the management team that is not enforcing it's uniform standards is also not enforcing other standards of business and probably running a bad operation. It's attention to detail and expecting certain level of performance. When a management team is doing a good job, most employees take pride and do what they should, with the few outlier being dealt with.

I don't like Delta's uniform but I have to give their group and airline high marks.

Want to wear Northface? Quit and go to work for google.

BTW, I don't think a pilot uniform has to have a hat to make it look professional.

This conversation is why airline pilots don't get paid what they should.

You want to be paid well and respected? Act, and dress, like you should be.

So you think that if you wear your monkey suit correctly the organ girder is going to pay you better? You've got a lot to learn skippy..

I agree with the guy that said the industry is imitating a military style uniform to make the people feel better. The hat especially is overkill. We are not boat captains. When I'm commandeering a ship I'll make sure to wear a hat. In fact I think now at days even those guys don't wear hats. The only way the public will feel better is if the pilot looks professional and preferably his weight is proportionate to his height. Slapping on a hat on a slob won't make a difference.

Been at Republic for 8 years... They have a lovely disciplinary style uniform policy. Those that don't wear the hat have rat's take pictures of them, send off to the CPO and next thing you know a letter is in your file. For those that have dressed per the uniform policy since I have been here have looked sharp but not one pay raise since... actually pay cuts with the cost of living increasing since then. So I gotta agree with Hoss here.

Oktober 15th???? Really...I'm thinking more like the 18th-20th...just a few more days not wearing the full monkey suit makes a difference:)

ALPA didn't take the pension. The company got rid of it in BK. ALPA has done far more for us as a group than "the company" ever did.

Actually saw that the other day, lol. Also observed a Houston sim instructor tool loudly commenting on how screwed up the company is to anyone that would listen. But his pointy cowboy boots were nicely polished.

So they get credit when contracts go well, not at fault when they go bad? Gotcha.

Not when the company declares BK, no.

And even then, we've done far better with a union that if we had been non-union. Look at CALs payrates and work rules from 1983 to when they became a union until today. Much better with one than without one.

I actually love this style of disciplinary action. If we could get the company to implement this, I could finally get the time off I'm denied with our current trip trade and vacation drop denials. Need a trip drop? You could hand your iPhone to a ramp rat for a quick photo but I recommend a selfie and send it in yourself. With Halloween quickly approaching, we could get real creative here.

Aren't you one that promotes the wearing of the ALPA Pin with vigor? If I am wrong on that please let me know. And to clarify, I don't think the Uniform is all of pilots pay issue but it is part. You can't have unity against management with a fragmented group of pilots. That includes uniform standards....as well as an ALPA pin.

You would be a legend if you took a selfie out of uniform, sent it to management and got suspended on a holiday!

I dunno, I used to look mighty spiffy in my Turbo-Shaker days. I was tanned, much leaner and doggone it, people liked me! (with all due respect to Mr Stuart Smalley) And I made bupkis. I wore a hat and my shoes were shined. And yet at every opportunity the folks in the ivory tower showed me just how much I meant to them and proved it on the 1st and 15th of each month.

My point is that there are a ton of RJ guys walking around in full uniform and looking sharp. How much money are they being paid?

When the Spirit guys were on the bottom rung, I don't remember their spiffy attire gaining them any additional respect or compensation. Ditto Frontier, TMA, Virgin America, etc etc.

I find your argument specious. But it ought to get you an opportunity to apply for a job in the flight office. :D

LMAO, so true!

Agreed. This whole concept of quid pro quo is ridiculous. If anyone believes the company (******* senior managers and all their tool minions) will compensate us more for wearing our uniforms in accordance with the FOM, then contact a shrink immediately. As far as what the passengers think??? I couldn't care less. If they had a choice your pay would be halved overnight!

If Nicolau had given you DOH, would you feel the same about ALPA?

I was on your side, but it is amazing how someone can destroy their credibility in a second. You are in the wrong sandbox here.

I don't remember the EXACT details of why, but at former company a pilot did something and the policy was 2 weeks off unpaid to "go home and think about his mistakes" type of thing.

However, it happened in summer and the company was seriously short pilots. So they told him they were going to delay the suspension till the fall schedule drawdown.