^^^^^^This!^^^^^^

So if the pay was halved again that would still be OK? I care, and I'm junior.

We need to stop allowing companies to pay us LESS and rationalizing why its OK to do so. We make half of what we used to if you look at the entire compensation package. Sure, we need the planes but not at any cost. The current 190 pay rates are just a continuation of the B scale.

I'm not going to disagree with you, but I think these all aren't that big of an issue...

1) When you have fleets that big, common engines don't really matter. Plenty of airlines do just fine with mixed engine fleets.

2) Yes, you probably could, but there aren't 60 used Airbuses out there for immediate lease. Thats seems like its the original problem here.

3) Even with FR and UA combined, it'd probably be lower total market share than a lot of other fortress hubs thanks to WN and all the other airlines at DEN. And I'm sure they could give up some assets here and there to make the government happy.


Not saying its the solution, but seems to me like at neat idea at least.

Jan 2015, per the UAL CBA;

EMB190 CA 1st year-max out: 124.26-135.36
190 FO 68.08-92.44

JB, 2015

JB 190 CA 1st year-max-out 131.10-176.09
190 FO 49.56-119.72

Granted, UAL 195 rate is HIGHER, but doesn't meet the JB rate.

I agree with the mantra, "just get them on property!!!!!!" I'm ALSO smart enough to know that "it's not ALL about the hourly rate". DC, 401K, health insurance, career/income progression at a company with MULTIPLE fleets on property vs. 2, whatever.

But again, the mantra at a legacy is "WE HAVE TO HAVE EVERYTHING BETTER THAN A LCC!!!!!!! EVERYTHING!!!!!!"

But I would NEVER disagree that the UAL rates SUCK.

90% of all passenger departures out of MSP are Delta. That's not a monopoly?

It absolutely is and NWA got away with buying Republic years ago so in practical terms NWA was "grandfathered" and DAL was able to keep MSP intact when they bought NWA.

Not so much the case for more recent mergers, with perhaps the best example being the slot swaps on the east coast that resulted from the AA/USAir merger. Heck, even UCH had to give up some EWR slots.

the rates we have at airways are dreadful , and APA doesn't care to burn negotiating Power on new ones. A delta 717 holds what 10 more people? Shoot for their rates.

Just get them on property guys.

But if we get them on property scope choke proved to work. We have guys that rather prove ALPA wrong than get jobs at mainline.

All the NO voters who said the SCOPE section was too weak. Then they won't be able to complain about SCOPE in the next contract and they will have to find something else to complain about.