Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1833234)

See this statement here is why we got a nasty gram that made world news. The new checklist is fantastic in my opinion we need to cross check all that stuff. How many times have you taken off without LNAV selected? I have done it. How many times have you taken off with a discontinuity in the FMC? I have done it. Lets say 10 more words in 5 more seconds and protect ourselves. Being lazy should not be in a pilots job description yet its the norm that I see, and being on property for only a year and a half I'm disappointed. I have had to read MELs to CAs because they thought they knew what it said and didn't want to look it up. Guess what? they didn't know what it said. I have watched CAs and FOs not do the proper ETOPS checks because "It is pointless busy work since we have ADS-B and CPDLC". Guess what? We got another nasty gram.

Lets stop playing the CAL and UAL hatred games and finger pointing and stand up for ourselves, come together, and take this memo as a battle cry against the desk jockeys in management.

NEW HIRES:

By the end of this year we will be 10% of the total pilots on property WE need to help make the change. WE need to speak out on what we think is right and wrong. WE need to hold all of our crew members to SOP even if they don't like it. Most of the pilots we fly with are fantastic but there is a larger majority then I would like that are lazy, complain and refuse to change and adhere to current SOPs.

New Hires, we don't know nor should we care what the old SOP said all we know is what it says now and how we were trained. So do what you were taught to do and don't accept any variations! We can change this culture so lets get on it.

Oh and wear your ALPA pin. Its an easy place to start.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1833485)

As long as one side enforces their legacy way of doing things versus the right/safest way.

Originally Posted by flybynuts (Post 1834373)

Actually, it's both sides holding on to legacy ways. The kicker is everyone thinks it's the other side and that the other side is wrong or messed up. Just as some say the 737 training is lacking I hear the same on the other new hire platforms. It's a failure of leadership to me.

Originally Posted by Knotcher (Post 1834107)

So your beef is checking the altimeter twice instead of checking it only once? Isn't it more conservative and thus more safe to check it twice? Do you want more safety or not?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1833234)

See this statement here is why we got a nasty gram that made world news. The new checklist is fantastic in my opinion we need to cross check all that stuff. How many times have you taken off without LNAV selected? I have done it. How many times have you taken off with a discontinuity in the FMC? I have done it. Lets say 10 more words in 5 more seconds and protect ourselves. Being lazy should not be in a pilots job description yet its the norm that I see, and being on property for only a year and a half I'm disappointed. I have had to read MELs to CAs because they thought they knew what it said and didn't want to look it up. Guess what? they didn't know what it said. I have watched CAs and FOs not do the proper ETOPS checks because "It is pointless busy work since we have ADS-B and CPDLC". Guess what? We got another nasty gram.

Lets stop playing the CAL and UAL hatred games and finger pointing and stand up for ourselves, come together, and take this memo as a battle cry against the desk jockeys in management.

NEW HIRES:

By the end of this year we will be 10% of the total pilots on property WE need to help make the change. WE need to speak out on what we think is right and wrong. WE need to hold all of our crew members to SOP even if they don't like it. Most of the pilots we fly with are fantastic but there is a larger majority then I would like that are lazy, complain and refuse to change and adhere to current SOPs.

New Hires, we don't know nor should we care what the old SOP said all we know is what it says now and how we were trained. So do what you were taught to do and don't accept any variations! We can change this culture so lets get on it.

Oh and wear your ALPA pin. Its an easy place to start.

Originally Posted by BeeWatcher (Post 1834622)

Maybe you mistake "lazy" with a pilot pacing himself through a 30-40 year career of strikes, bankruptcies, furloughs, and constant change. There hasn't been a pilot attributed hull loss here since you were suckling on your mother's left one and Howard was getting trip drops for his work with Duane. If you are going to call out pilots don't do so on a public forum. Talk to them in person or go to professional standards. The only new hires that "saved" an airline was the 570 (just ask them)...and yes I do wear an ALPA pin.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834651)

Im not afraid to speak up and I do talk to them in person. If they refuse to do the ETOPS checks that are required I do them after I show them the proper way to do it in the FM. It has caused some flight decks to be uncomfortable but I'm not going to wreck my 30 year career because you have seen it all and are "pacing" yourself from your 30 year career. Adapt or die isn't that Darwin? Maybe we should ask the flight engineer what he thinks.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834651)

Im not afraid to speak up and I do talk to them in person. If they refuse to do the ETOPS checks that are required I do them after I show them the proper way to do it in the FM. It has caused some flight decks to be uncomfortable but I'm not going to wreck my 30 year career because you have seen it all and are "pacing" yourself from your 30 year career. Adapt or die isn't that Darwin? Maybe we should ask the flight engineer what he thinks.

Originally Posted by pilotgolfer (Post 1834675)

How long have you been online? Less than a year? You sure do have lots of answers. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1834748)

Funny thing is 99% of the pilots I've flown with during my career are SOP. Even during all those phase/otj training changes we did our best to follow SOP. So the question begs young Master..., who are you flying with?

Btw, If by association in your post you have no affiliation with any of the legacy carriers, then why the old UAL paint scheme in your avatar?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834691)

A year and a half......


The people hired now have no affiliation with United, Continental, NY Air, Texas International, Frontier #1, Peoples Express, PanAM, Eastern, Braniff, TWA.......

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834772)

As for the avatar. I wanted to fly for United since I started my love for aviation. It was my goal and what I worked for with everything I did. I made it to United and I am proud to be here, and be part of the greatest airline in the world. I am going to do everything I can to keep United a world class airline that I am proud to work for. So my avatar stays because I achieved my dream.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1834748)

Funny thing is 99% of the pilots I've flown with during my career are SOP.

Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 1834777)

I'm just curious, but what magical thing happened between now and the year and half ago you were hired that dictates people hired NOW have NO affiliation with United? What does the plane say on the side?

Is there something special about YOU that you can claim you are "affiliated" with United?

When you were hired, were you done so under L-UAL or L-CAL staffing criteria?

As in, EWR 756 or 76T?

Originally Posted by awax (Post 1834782)

The other question that begs to be asked is: "Do the SOP's that company is pushing make us safer, or just standardized?"

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834772)

I agree that most of the pilots here comply with SOP, but they are not the ones generating these degrading memos we keep getting.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834788)

Sorry should have been more specific should have said L-UAL and L-CAL. I was hired by UNITED there is no L in front of the airline I was hired by or the airline I work for.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1834803)

"Who" is generating those degrading memos? Think about it for a while.

Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 1834804)

So are you affiliated with United?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834820)

What is YOUR point? Because you clearly missed my point.

Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 1834822)

Apologies.

Clarify, how is no one hired now affiliated with United?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834819)

The desk jockeys in the crystal palace. So lets stop giving them ammo.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1834832)

I'm just going to let this one go. I think your history/experience in these matters speak for itself. What I really want to say is not for public consumption. Fly safe.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834691)

A year and a half. And all I have is the SOP as it was taught to me. I will fly it whether you like it or not. If I feel like a procedure is unsafe I will email the flight department or file an FSAP.

I want the NEW United to succeed because I have so much invested here. I hope to still be here when all of you are long retired. The people hired now have no affiliation with United, Continental, NY Air, Texas International, Frontier #1, Peoples Express, PanAM, Eastern, Braniff, TWA.......

The experience of the pilots I have flown with is amazing and I have, and will, continue to learn form that experience. But this holding on to the "old" way or not following the SOP because its stupid is not ok with me. The way it used to be done was perfectly safe but its not how its done now.

Don't you think we are doing the new hires a dis service by n
ot following the SOP they have less than 100 hrs flying under? What are we teaching these new guys/gals?

Originally Posted by pilotgolfer (Post 1834866)

MOP,
Can you give me a specific example of an SOP that you have seen violated? You've been speaking in such generalities. I want to know an example so I can put it on a scale of Importance from 1-10. And I'm not saying one SOP is any more/less important than another. I just need a baseline to figure out to what degree the sky is falling.

Are we talking verbiage like Level change vs. FLCH...
Record keeping on the master flight plan...
Stabilized approaches...
MCP manipulation...
A checklist challenge / response
Which FMC page to have up for FP/NFP
What is it?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1834890)

Check your PMs. A public forum is not the place to list specific examples. I have been speaking in generalities for this reason.

Originally Posted by pilotgolfer (Post 1834866)

MOP,
Can you give me a specific example of an SOP that you have seen violated? You've been speaking in such generalities. I want to know an example so I can put it on a scale of Importance from 1-10. And I'm not saying one SOP is any more/less important than another. I just need a baseline to figure out to what degree the sky is falling.

Are we talking verbiage like Level change vs. FLCH...
Record keeping on the master flight plan...
Stabilized approaches...
MCP manipulation...
A checklist challenge / response
Which FMC page to have up for FP/NFP
What is it?

Originally Posted by Blockoutblockin (Post 1835006)

LMAO you left out "WHOA Dude really", or "***, I got the jet", or "Are you intentionally trying to **** me off"