This is the internet and a public forum as such I realize there is limited benefit trying to discuss such matters here, but I am doing what I can internally and I thought it couldn't hurt to strike up a conversation here as well given the diversity in locations, fleets, and seniority represented on APA.

So here it goes . . .


It has been my experience so far that most pilots in the EWR 756 fleet are not using the HOWGOZIT or flying the plan. I believe this is a silly case of "I'm not doing it 'cuz it's stupid" syndrome, and when one examines the costs and benefits of using these tools one sees their potential advantages out weigh the cost of overcoming ones bias.

First the HOWGOZIT:

Obviously if you are flying EWR to ORD, the HOWGOZIT (from here on in called the HZ) is worthless, but on longer flights it can be invaluable as a simple tool to check your progress in meeting planned time and more importantly planned fuel. Let me offer a simple story as an example.

Several years back a crew was flying a transcon when they got a FUEL CONFIG EICAS. The fuel was out of balance so they opened the valves and balanced the fuel. A short while later, they got a second FUEL CONFIG EICAS. They again balanced the fuel, but this time they called maintenance and the initial appraisal they were given was that the overhead gauges were most likely in error since the CALCULATED fuel was normal and fuel flow was normal. Shortly after their initial conference with maintenance they got a third FUEL CONFIG and this time they did not balance the fuel, but they did call maintenance back. There was a new mechanic on duty and his first question was: "Did you run the fuel leak checklist?" They ran the checklist and discovered they should suspect a fuel leak at just about the time they were running out of gas in the engine with the leak. They diverted to the closest airport.

So how does this apply to the HZ? The HZ takes a snapshot of your fuel at liftoff and gives you a super simple reference point for your expected fuel at each waypoint. All it takes is a couple seconds to jot down your fuel over a couple points to create an ongoing fuel score. As technique I use the overhead fuel reading on the HZ and compare it to the CALCULATED number which is what we write down on international MASTER FPFs. In any case had the crew above been following their fuel score on a HZ they would have suspected their problem long before it became an issue. By the same token the recent SABRE wind bust incident which resulted in a crew landing low on fuel would also have been uncovered sooner if the crew had been making simple waypoint checks with the HZ. Not only would it have shown they were crossing the abeam points with less fuel, they would likely have seen that they were losing time over the abeams as well.

Bottom Line: The HZ is not a magic bullet and it really doesn't have any information you can't get from the FPF, but it IS a super simple and easy tool that lets you keep an eye on your fuel score and any change in expected ETA especially on longer flights.


Now on to SABRE . . .

Nothing I say will make believers out of you until you try a simple test. Fly the plan and keep track using the HZ for 3 or 4 flights. It is my experience that when we have flown the plan and not had major reroutes or vectoring from ATC then the plan has been incredibly accurate. The SABRE flight plans are efficient, just look at how drastic a difference it made for the crew that took a direct. If like me you ultimately want to do a good job even if the company is doing it's best to frustrate and hinder my attempts. I urge you to simply try flying a few plans as written and see for yourself whether or not SABRE is worthwhile.

Well anyways there it is . . . my thoughts on SABRE and HZ

 

Why would you write down your CALCULATED fuel on your "international flight plan"
as opposed to the ACTUAL FUEL over the fix?

 

The Howgozit only "works" if:

You don't change ANYTHING.

Fly faster to make A:00 - will be off.
Fly .80 in a 764 instead of the ridiculously slow .765 that SABRE filed you at - it will be off.
Intentionally fly slower to make a curfew landing time in LHR - it will be off.
Fly different altitude for smoother ride - will be off.
Get a track change - will be off.

The howgozit does NOT update anything that you've changed from the SABRE flight plan.

So, it's a "ballpark" comparison of what you're doing vs what you were planned to do.

Do I ever look at it once I print it - no.
In fact I ask if guys even want it printed - some say yes, most say don't bother.

But I do leave the progress page up on the FMC to make sure the fuel stays close to what it said when we took off.

 

Because that's what the LRN nav 3-1.30.20 section says your supposed to (FM 756 page 1401).

Record progress page fuel - not fuel off fuel gauge - due to temperature variation of the the fuel density and variation in gauge accuracy.

(From Page 1401):
Note: There is normally a relatively small difference between the calculated fuel onboard (as determined by the FMC/fuel flow inputs and displayed on the POS REPORT page) and the sensed fuel (as determined by the fuel quantity indicating system). This difference is normally not significant, and is the result of small inaccuracies in the sensors, or changes in fuel density due to cold soaking. Unless there is substantial evidence to indicate a gross error in the calculated fuel value it should not be altered, and this is the value that should be logged on the MFP.

 

Good discussion-
The Howgozit is just another "tool".. depending on how you use it and which side you come from!

Case in point- I've flown with alot of LUAL guys who are now on the 756 side. They (Capt/FO/IRO) always ask for the HGT almost as soon as the plane is cleaned up! Seems the IRO (bunkie) wants it for his rest break calculations and the capt, well.. I don't know why he wants it so early?
Per the AFM (yupe, I'm referring to a manual).. "once established at Cruise and After passing a waypoint... etc). So why would you ask for it sooner?

On the (old) CAL side, the IRO had two important things to do AFTER takeoff-
Start filling out the times on the flight plan using old fashion math (after passing 10000 usually!). This was done by noting the OFF time. Either by watching the time himself, or by asking for the Times Page on the ACARS.
The other thing was.. figuring out the breaks! Again, based off the times listed above~

Then in flight, all you did was compare the time and fuel that was planned at the waypoint versus what you had showing on the Pos Report page. Simple.

Now, I see guys just copying the HGT times onto the flightplan! Some will also note the time and fuel on the HGT but isn't that what the flightplan is for?

Again, differences in cultures.
I like Sabre and think it's a great tool. Very accurate and after going to Fuel School, understand it more and follow it more. The HGT?!.. eh.

Motch

PS> What I am concerned about is the fact that new hires are probably seeing two or three different ways that things are being done out there. Case in point- IRO on an IOE trip recently. NewHire asked for Flitch after takeoff (and on descent). We joked about it at cruise but found it interesting that a newhire would use that term. On the (old) LCAL side, it's "Flight Level Change"...
Turns out, he was trained by all LUAL instructors (a few who had never flown the 757-2's across the Atlantic, and one who was a returning Mil Leave guy!) and had been taught "certain" LUAL procedures and callouts.
Again, just "differences in cultures".. but tough on the new guys~

 

I have been burned on this many times with L-UAL IROs.

They print a Howgozit - divide by three and split.

Even though we all said that we were going to fly fast to be on time.

As a result, the guy on third break - usually me since I like 3rd break - gets screwed out of about 20 minutes of break time.
So now I basically rework the breaks every leg after the IRO has left.

So beware out there if the IRO figures out break times from the Howgozit - and not from the progress page.

Just an FYI.

 

LOL.. (laughing with ya, not at ya!)
I've kinda seen that too. I "review" the break plan too.. Only had to fix it a couple of times, and was only a few minutes. Try to be "diplomatic (for a German NewYorker!)" by asking the Captain if it's ok to get back so little before landing, as the break times are off..
Once he had me adjust it.. the other time HE said he would just return early.

All good.. learning continues~
Always
Motch

 

Well your first issue is that Sabre is planning you at .765 and you're flying at .80 for ATC, crossing, home leg, just feel like it, so of course it's going to be off. The Sabre flight plan has some data to tell you roughly how much so at least you can take a wag at how much more gas you're going to burn.

But the Howgozit is not then rendered worthless. Pull up another one several fixes down line and you will see that it has recalculated your landing fuel and time based on what you've actually been flying. Better still, contact dispatch and tell them you're flying .80 and a different flight attitude and have them re-run your FP. Then pull up a new Howgozit and it will give you the accurate numbers.

Not sure why the disdain for it. It's a good tool for the tool chest and eliminates the multiple math errors I saw guys making before it existed

 

Actually,

The Howgozit recalculates each additional fix at the original SABRE flight planned speed and altitudes.

So you can ask for another HOWGOZIT after each fix, and it will recalculate based on the filed SABRE flight plan speed AND altitude.

If you are planning to go .80 (example), or at another altitude (rides), you need to manually send dispatch a message for them to rerun the flight plan and send you a .80/FL360 howgozit - when they do, that will update the SABRE flight plan in the system and it will THEN give you a valid howgozit.

But you are incorrect - it does NOT update what you've changed in the FMC (speed or altitude) - but simply "recomputes".

Have you ever noticed an excessively high number UAL app flight updates updating the arrival time so much on an inbound flight?

The reason for that is that the flight plan was .76 (example), but the guys are going .81 to be on time (A:00). After each fix or two, when the arrival time is updated (fix X distance remaining X SABRE speed of .76), the app "updates" the arrival time - based on flying the remaining flight at .76.

This "can" be incredibly annoying for our customers who's family is waiting for them and the app keeps updating the arrival time (getting there different than when they looked 5 hours ago). As the aircraft gets closer and closer, the distance remaining is so small that even when you go .81 the times eventually become the "estimated" arrival time.

As a result, if they don't recheck the arrival time on the app, the may not leave for the airport in time.

As a "technique", most L-UAL guys figure out what speed they want for the tracks, get the clearance from Gander/Shanwick - and then have dispatch rerun a new howgozit prior to coast out.

That way (five +/- hours from touch down), the UAL SABRE automated position reports can keep customers/opps/SONIC up to date with a very accurate estimated arrival time.

Nice technique IMHO - but it can increase the work load on an already overloaded dispatcher.

 

That's what I said.... Admittedly not very clearly. I'm well aware that it plans the REST of your flight with your Sabre plan, which is why I said if you want the new actual numbers you need to call dispatch and have then re-run. However, if you pull the numbers 1/3 of the way through the flight and compare the the original Howgozit, you can get a good idea of how much extra fuel your .81 has burned and how many minutes it's saved. Then you extrapolate. It takes about 10 seconds.

As far as bothering dispatch, if you're flying .81 on a .765 plan you really should get them involved anyway. You're going to be getting close to an time change large enough to require a report to them anyway per the FOM. And you're going to have quite a bit less fuel than they were expecting. If they don't have time, they will ignore you based on my experience.

If you don't like the Howgozit, that's fine. But I've found it to be a fantastic and easy tool over the years. Especially since it's tough to keep a fuel score without a paper FP (assuming non international leg). With the Howgozit, a quick glance will tell you everything. FWIW, keeping a fuel score manually on the Sabre plan is going to be just as worthless once you blow off the plan. And you introduce the possibility of math errors.

Pulling a Howgozit isn't going to change what the app says. So if you're worried about being "incredibly annoying" to the people coming to pick someone up, fly the plan... Or call dispatch. That's their job.