There should be pdf copies on the ALPA website available for free as well. Easy to read on an iPad.

Scabs wear ALPA PINS too

And there's wannabe scabs running around with slick ties... But hey, if they want to be treated like a scab...

Are the guys with their pins upside down in EWR trying to make a point about something? As a relatively new guy I'm not sure if that is just as bad as sporting a slick tie?

I wonder the same thing when I see legacy U guys wearing legacy wings. What's with the clown act? Don't get the point...

It's their childish way of pouting. They like the protections and service of ALPA but only when it benefits them. Not for them to worry, BS will be there soon to make their life better. Huh? Did I hear BS say he knew how the system worked?

Pre-SLI CAL hired new pilots, and as a favor, we hired furloughed UA pilots, only later to have ALPA make them senior to us. We got tricked into hiring them and would have been better off hiring new hires off the street. Those pilots pushed the rest of the UA pilots up the seniority list affecting the entire list. Some of us lost a ton of seniority because of ALPA.

Holy **** what a disrespectful post!!! Not to mention it isn't even accurate.

Your "FAVOR":mad: had nothing to do with how the MEDIATOR put the list together.

I'm a post merger hire, hired while you were doing a "FAVOR" to the furloughed United pilots, and I can tell you are a complete tool.

Do us all a favor and throw your pin in the garbage you don't deserve to wear it, because you clearly don't have our backs.:mad:

Another clueless individual spouting drivel. Sorry that some former LCAL were misled by your MEC to believe that their SLI proposal was realistic or based on ALPA merger policy. It wasn't, it's over, move on.

I thought the SLI was the result of a decision of 3 independent arbitrators and that ALPA was a neutral in the process. That both parties had an opportunity to put on their best case, the arbs then weighed the equities, sorted through the nonsense and did their duty to make a fair and equitable decision.

How did the fact that a UA furloughed pilot who went to work for CAL influence the arbs? What about the UA furloughed pilot that did not go to work for CAL? It would seem it did not make any difference. A formula that gives credit for longevity is likely to result in a list where furlough status is not the sole constraint on ones final position. The UA furloughees working at CAL were placed on the list, because of their position on the pre-merger UA list, which could not be changed.

So, I am confused how you lost a "ton of seniority" or why ALPA is to blame for your plight. As a disinterested party, it seems like it was a fair process to me. This is great discussion in the bar, but changes nothing. If I was still working, I would wear my ALPA pin, because it sends a message to management.

Protections and service of alpa?

Like how thousands of pilots were protected from receiving anything in the bond distribution?

Or how that same group was protected as they were escorted off the property. For years?

Maybe how they were protected as they were escorted off the property. For years. Again?

How about being protected from having pilots who were hired 7 or 8 years after them placed senior to them forever?

And let's not forget about how LOA 25 was written to specifically protect them from having any of their longevity ever restored.

I also find it quite telling that you refer to professional men and women, in their 40's and 50's, who have had their careers gutted, whose finances, families and marriages have suffered irreparable damage, as childish pouters.

Without a doubt a complete delta bravo :mad:
:re svergin

I see your point. Why not just take your ALPA pin off altogether? If you're not going to do something constructive and instead accept whatever comes down the pike, you might as well quit ALPA. Your work life is far better with ALPA representation then none at all. Ask any "post scab era" hire at LCAL the difference. Were you not paying attention with the shenanigans the IAH LEC was doing and trying to go back to the "friends of Fred" era?

p.s.
Quit feeling sorry for yourself and don't assume you were the only one to be furloughed. You weren't the first and I guarantee you won't be the last.

The United contract 2000 had no furlough protection, simply put the company could not furlough pilots on the seniority list. United ALPA made a decision to allow the company to furlough as many as they wanted. ALPA made that decision. DAL ALPA had the same language and chose to fight the furloughs and won a protracted arbitration getting many of their pilots their jobs back with retro pay. The bond distribution that was mentioned previously was given to ALPA to decide who was to participate. ALPA chose an arbitrary date, and if you weren't back on the property by that date you got nothing, I returned 10 days to late, this was tens of thousands of dollars per pilot that we didn't get. A number of airlines agreed to drop the limits on flight hours per month so the furloughs would be reduced, not United ALPA. United ALPA pilots voted overwhelming in favor of a contract that introduced the first B scale to a major airline in a generation with the inclusion of LOA 25. All of these things were done by United ALPA, not the company. If you weren't there you can't possibly appreciate how we were treated by our ALPA brothers and sisters. All of us that took advantage of the furlough fund appreciated having it, but that doesn't come close to correcting the damage that United ALPA did to their furloughed pilots, ALPA, not the company.

Do you treat the US Air pilots like scabs for not wearing their pins?

Attention new hires, this exactly the type you should always slam-click on.

Ok Coto Pilot, your perception is that you were wronged. What would you have done and how would you made it work to your satisfaction. You seem to feel that ALPA works in a vacuum with no control by the company.

What have you done to make sure it doesn't happen again? Most of us would likely support a good plan.

All that heartache, and you still came back?

I find it quite telling that you continue to use that Avatar of yours. Did you ever consider that any of us, including a "professional" like you, could have a bad day? Those guys did. I'm sure they would appreciate browsing this forum and seeing you use that picture. You can critique them for it, but that event they went through became a training focus at TK. We all learned from their unfortunate bad day.

Instead, you use it the way you do. As far as I'm concerned, someone with your attitude doesn't deserve a dam* thing. When things hit the fan again, I hope you get shown the door for the third time. Take your "professional" self elsewhere.

So....vacancy bid. I have heard that there may be a few individuals file a grievance on this bid because the date on the bid is not really defined for the delivery date of #25. Tentatively Nov 20.

Is it the bid published date, effective date, closing date, training dates? Not defined.

Thoughts?

No one will ever convince you that you did not get a bad deal, and you did, by a group of terrorists. Nevertheless, it is easy now, 15 years later, to point fingers . The furlough protections negotiated in various contracts before 2000 never anticipated a 20% reduction in block hours after a single event such as 9/11. The context of the furlough clause relief was that no one would have a job and the company would not survive. It is arguable, that the MEC could have done more, but in the end, there was not enough jobs to go around. It is notable that this type of provision is no longer in your contract. You would think those dealt the bad hand would demand a new no furlough clause, but it would still be eyewash.

On the matter of the Bond, it is worth setting the record straight for those who only hear misinformation. The company negotiators offered the bond to off set the loss of the A plan. Their intent was it would be distributed as a percentage of A plan loss. The MEC at the time engaged in a money grab, mostly junior pilots with no expectation they would see much of the bond money, they derived a weird plan calling it a stovepipe, taking a term from merger policy. It ensured they would line their pockets with money that did not belong to them. Part of the scam was that it was supposed to be egalitarian, everyone should get money, but someone thought well let's cut the furlough guys out, more for us. The whole concept was so corrupt it didn't make any difference to them, so on that you are correct they screwed you, the lesson, be careful who you elect. The irony is that you were not entitled to it in any case.

The reason is quite clear, the "company negotiators" intent was that it was compensation for the loss of the A fund. Defined Benefit Plans are accrued, if you were not vested and did not earn anything, you do not get any A plan money. So, why am I so certain of this, it is quite simple. The disaffected A plan recipients sued ALPA. This case did not even go to court. When ALPA realized what had happened, they settled out of court for $42 million, about half of the major contingency fund. I guess they did not want the company negotiators taking the stand, telling the jury what they intended for the bond money. Unfortunately, the $500 million bond had been distributed.

Are the retirees bitter, more than a few, but being mad at ALPA is like yelling at you dog, he is only slightly annoyed and doesn't really care. In any case, there are a few on that MEC that I would not turn my back. It doesn't hurt to let them know every once in awhile, they are spending money that belongs to some one else.

In military vernacular, a SCAB is someone who will try and screw your wife as soon as you leave on deployment.

Got it....the Marines like to refer to it as Jody I believe...or something to that tone as they run around the base grunting at themselves...

Yut yut. We also talk about a C-130 coming down a strip...

They're sitting left seat EWR 777s. Doesn't look like their lot in life took a hit...

They will forever be forgotten, the only memory that they ever existed will be their name written on the SCAB list for eternity.

Wearing their ALPA pin

Ok, that affects them in life or in death.... How?

They know they're scum. They are treated like garbage and know that they have no integrity.

They fear putting their retirement photos up for the scorn they would endure.

Every scab knows that they are trash. The LCAL guys sometimes talk big…."it was the best decision I every made"….but the scum know that they are hated.

Even if they find a comfy little group to fly with, they are always nervous that they might be found out.

They sure were surprised when they heard the LUAL guys say the word "scab" in ops. They cried "you can't say that word!".

Yes…we can.

And we don't have to shake their hand either...

In all seriousness...(newbie and I haven't a clue)...how does one from ALPA interact with these folks?

I will assume we are professional in the cockpit...
How do we know they are scabs?
If they are a captain...and I am probation...interaction recommendations?

Be safe and professional in the cockpit. Give them checklist responses only, otherwise no chit chat, pleasantries or acknowledgement of their existence. Hit the hotel checkin desk, get your key, walk away without a word. Avoid them at all costs during layover.

Used to be the CAL scabs had employee numbers that gave it away. Now you must google the national scab list a keep a copy. Mine is on my phone.

The list is available from a Google search.

http://download.cabledrum.net/wikile...-list-2004.pdf

I always check it if I have any doubt. If they're a scab I do my job and keep to myself at the layover. I don't socialize with them. Be professional but don't go out of your way to make them feel good about themselves.

Dang. Good to know.

More stupidity from me...this demeanor doesn't cause strife between the two parties during the trip?

IMHO, there should be strife. They're effing scabs and stabbed their fellow pilots right in the back when strikers took a stand and their families suffered as a result. I want them to feel uncomfortable and know I don't like them. That being said, when I enter the cockpit, I'm safe and professional for the sake of the passengers and their safety as well as the FAs.

Not if you don't talk to them it doesn't. Most SCABS no why you won't acknowledge them and don't press the issue. They do their job and you do yours and the flight will be conducted safely.

If you give a SCAB an opening they will take a mile. They desperately want a friend. Can you imagine working for 30-40 years and never enjoying a burger and beer with the guy your flying with??

Just do your job and be professional as a half-winger. The SCABs know they're not liked for stabbing the profession in the back and the sUAL scabs expect to be lonely when they show up at work.

The common denominator of every scab I've flown with is that they lied about their hire dates. I already knew when I asked the question. I just wanted to see if they'd tell the truth. None yet has. So their true character comes through right at the outset.

How does a UAL 570 Who fits the same demographic as the cal scabs, get to go into the interview while scabs are being hired, tell them they will cross a picktline.. Then cause the strike by giving Ferris the confidence of having 570 pilots who will do so. They compensate by being super Union chest thumpers to cover up what they did in 85. In my eyes they are no different.
While many fleet quals did the same thing and never turned a wheel get called a SCAB. Many were given half wings and said F u to ALpa when their year was up. No scabs on the 747?

Thread, derailed.


https://ayestria.files.wordpress.com...rain-wreck.jpg

Iadfo

Your comment is a complete waste of time and demonstration of your ignorance of the whole 570 issue.

No I am not a 570, but I was there in the day and I will let all know this one thing, with just a few exceptions the 570 followed ALPA's instructions to the letter in 1985.

And to say they caused the strike is pure **