Back to the thread topic: The big "concession" is giving them two more years on the amendable date. Doubt things will be as good in 2022 when we actually get a full new contract TA.

So by your own admission in your post, you are assuming section 6 will take 3 years, so how do you think things will look in 2019? In the meantime you're giving up a BILLION in wages to the pilot group over that 3 years. So you have to start there to even break even

The no crowd seems to be doing that a lot lately.

Actually the thread topic is what are the concessions from the two pre merger contracts that are found in C2012. C2012 has been labeled as concessionary and I am looking for details on why. So far the only items are vacation drops and increased medical. What else did we give back that we once had?

You ?SIR? really need to talk to other retired pilots and not just the local Joe down at the corner bar. United had already covered most if not all the of the mandated coverage of Obamacare. Go back and point to the year you had a bump in premiums as a result of Obamacare. For most of the increases, it's been administration cost that has driven the relatively small increases.

Medicare has been around a long time before Obamacare. If you would, please tell us what year you got a Medicare premium bump due to Obamacare?

As far as the Supplemental policies offered by United they were and are designed to offer coverage when combined with Medicare to make it similar to active employees.

You should at least read or watch the information Greene has put out concerning retirement. If you can't the find ALPA retirement video on Skynet/Flyingtogether post back and I'll get a link for you. There may even be a power-point presentation out there.

I really mean no disrespect but YOU ARE RETIRED. Maybe you should spend more time learning how to retire.

An outstanding question. As far as increased medical, it increased because the cost of medical increased. LUAL's percentage stayed the same.

Please, anyone, please list the things that went downhill, for either pilot group, with C2012.

Reserve short call out reduced on the UAL side from an unwritten 4 hours to push to the 2+30 to show. So a loss of 30 mins and now codified.

The FIFO list and monthly calendar transparency.

No credit for Field standby.

Anything having to do with CCS. Hard to believe that Unimatic was more functional.

The need to verify trips domestically (saved from doing this thanks to FAR117, but it's still in the contract, 5-E-2-a)

Getting paid correctly. The whole concept of having a "file a pay claim" process just validates that payroll is messed up.

Non LCA Captains flying as F/O.

The Reassignment sections, 20-I, up to and including Forced Junior manning (In the contract, not implemented yet due to lack of IT capability). So convoluted and again lacks transparency for the line pilot to ensure its been followed correctly.


Just a few I can think of for the UAL side. C2012, to be fair, also brought improvements to both sides in some of those same sections.

DC

We didn't have SC at UAL. We had reserve. Yes 4 hrs, but there was no Long Call either. You were ALWAYS on the hook for 4 hrs. And did we get paid an extra hour after 2 days on reserve since every day was a SC? LOL

FSB was 5 hrs pay, was it add pay? Nope, so if you didn't break guarantee it was a freebie too. Did it pay extra if you had multiple unused? Nope so try again.

CCS is a complete CF with it's lack of transparency I completely agree. But that was a management function and nothing contractual.

Pay issues? Not a contractual issue either. I agree it's retarded to have to do a pay claim and that there are so many needed, but show what section of the contract addresses that and what section of any old contract was better. It's a management and IT issue.

Almost everything you didn't like, is not a concession, but the compromise between two legacy cultures, rolled into one joint contract.

LUAL got more pay.
LCAL got more work rules, and QOL.

Overall, not ideal, but far from anything I would call concessionary. Calling it concessionary means we went backwards.

Actually you are wrong. UAL had a LC/SC reserve system before the merger. Go look at 20-J-2 of the c2003 rewrite. It's titled Long Call Reserve. Or 20-J-3, Short Call Reserve.

So those FSB lines that guys bid must have been a mirage? They paid 90 hours. And at 5 hours pay credit it counted towards your cap. Even if you didn't break guarantee, it reduced how much flying you could be assigned in a month. Do we get paid for a FSB now? Nope. Not even any credit. So how is that better now?

We had a limit on the amount if SC's under c2003. Max of 7 assigned (you could aggressive pick up more if you wanted), and after the 4th they were supposed to bypass you if another pilot in silo had less.

IT is tied in contractually via the FIFO list, and recurrent training bidding and numerous other issues. The company chose CCS even though it couldn't do it. How is it that CCS is unable to determine ones legality after training for a 30/168 issue? It currently is a pilot responsibility to ensure they are legal for their next trip because CCS can't track what DH flight home you are on.

Silly me, doing the work as proscribed in the contract, and expecting to get paid properly for it without having to hunt it down via a pay claim. But yep. That's not contractual at all. :rolleyes:

So if it was a concession due to the BK, and it continued in c2012 it's no longer a concession?