A buddy showed me this site. Interesting compilation of info. Vote early - vote often!

https://ualextensionta.wordpress.com/

 

Many guys won't read that simply because its too long.

 

ahh. Andy Collins. Didn't he lead the charge to replace ALPA here at UAL? Yep, he is one of the 7 elected reps that voted NO. There are 13 that voted yes and 9 more that signed the Pro Statement. Your're right James...I'm not reading that. I'm too busy reading about the Chinese economy and thinking about how far we are into this profit cycle. I'm gonna go ahead and lock in 13% starting Feb 1st.

 

The first letter was written by DB if I am not mistaken Following his, there were position letters from at least 7 reps from several councils in that post. I think you just proved my point.

Hopefully anyone sitting on the fence, or less wedded to their yes vote will take the time to read it. After all, if voted in this extension will probably be in effect for years after its amendable date.

 

As will Contract 2012 if we turn this down. But I agree. Info is good. That's why I watched the videos, the webinars, and read the Pro/Con statements...after reading the TA and Overview of course. Easy yes for me. Not even close.

 

This is exactly why I'm voting yes. Section 6 will take years whether it's now, or 3 years from now. Years at 15% (or higher depending on DAL) turns into a BIG number very fast and will be likely impossible to surpass in negotiations. It's the time value of money.

James, I DO appreciate your thoughts and know that you and the reps that vote no strongly believe that it's the best thing for the pilot group. My opinion is that a Yes vote is the way to bring maximum value to the pilot group long term. Two differing views with the same goal. But I thank you for your reasonable, calm, rational and understandable discussions on the matter.

 

Two points.

First, this is the most profitable time in the history of the airlines. What will the landscape look like in 3-5 years when we're trying to negotiate a full contract? In 3-5 years we will be negotiating in an uncertain environment. In 3-5 years we will be at least 2.5 years behind a mature Delta contract. I realize your position of time value of money but this extension isn't free. It represents an opportunity cost extending a less than optimal total compensation package into a period of uncertain airline economics for 13-0-2%.

Second, many put a lot of faith in the snap up, averaged, up until Jan 1 2018 Delta me too clause. Delta is negotiating a full contract. Their compensation is going to increase thru many vehicles within their contract. I would be surprised if their pay/profit sharing is greater than our TA extension value. NMB will point to ours as industry standard. I expect Delta to hit it out of the park with the balance of their contract thereby nullifying our me too clause.

 

Gettinbumped,

You're welcome.

I assumed that someone would hop on my comment. But here's where we differ. My fear is that after we agree to this, UA will have us right where they want us. Namely, cheap relative to DAL when looking at total cost. Forget the straight hourly rate, there is a ton of compensation buried in work rules, sick leave accrual, vacation pay/override, etc. For example:

DAL already has a 5.4 (vs our 5.0) rig do they not? Add that up over a year (lets say 16 days per month X 12 and you wind up north of 76 hours) and you could receive an additional full months pay. Take that 76 hours at 180 bucks and add another 2 grand to your B/C fund. Small numbers add up fast, especially if you're a new hire and have 20 years to go. As another example, I used to fly Bus 4 days with a 31 hour break in CLE. Because there was no duty period that day, our rig didn't apply. Road apples.

After we agree to FRMS / 117 relief, UALco will have zero incentive to negotiate. Just this week, KWI-IAD cancelled at least twice due to crew. Cancellations like that are happening system wide, every week. That's huge leverage and we're letting it go for peanuts as this place is sloshing cash. Hell, they're giving the shareholders 4 billion and Oscar (at least) 28 million.

Without leverage, any previous foot dragging employed by them will look amateurish in comparison. I have zero confidence that this group has the stones to mount a cohesive front, and I fear that will worsen as we move forward. That's when I think time will work against us.

There is a lot to consider in this TA. Some of the arguments posted (on both forums) appear facile to me. Leverage and profitability are both fleeting. Maximize both while you can.

 

You are a wise man.

Because of a few days of stock market losses, people are screaming the sky is falling.
Record job numbers, low oil prices, low unemployment and projected record airline profits are ignored from a few wild days in the stock market.
If all this worries you, please stay out of stocks. You will not be able to handle the stress.
Looking past the hourly pay, we will be far behind most other airlines and now that the company has what they want, we will be stuck for a long time.