So the "unvarnished truth" in this case is what....according to you and Hutchens?, if it is different than what Cummins claims.

The source docs are available with an ALPA # and password on the R&I committee page, no?

The "unvarnished truth" is not far away. Why don't you contact BH(several contact references in this thread) and ask specific question about your fears. Post back the results. Rumor has it BH doesn't bite.

As others have stated, Chuck offers not ONE SHRED of evidence to back up his claims.

Do your legwork and find the truth. Don't be blinded by $$ signs.

I'll give you a hint. The amount is less than $100mil and its decreasing as benefits are paid out. Cummins character is completely shot based on the lies and innuendos he's published. Wouldn't be surprised if Article VIII charges are around the corner.

Does anyone actually have control over the "numbers?" Are the numbers "specifically agreed to by ALPA?" Or are the numbers up to interpretation? If ALPA agrees to what the numbers are, and everyone is in agreement as to what the numbers are, then the numbers are the numbers.... NO?

In my opinion...........The whole thing is an R/I issue and an ALPA National issue, and not an LEC issue. No one at the LEC level is going to drive results, drive a solution, or have one iota of sway or pull on this issue, specifically because it had to do with a now defunct plan that was managed under an airline that is no longer in existence. True, the pilots over-paid. True enough. But, if you want anything back it won't come from ALPA. ALPA will only pay up if forced to do so legally.

Has any money been paid from that "hold back?" The amount of money here is a known dollar figure, it's a fixed amount. ALPA knows they screwed over the military guys and others who had various types of qualifying leaves of absence.... So, why doesn't ALPA just pay the money?? Answer: They haven't been forced to. Grievances, motions, votes, ballots, roll call votes are all just buerocratic tools that simply make people feel like they are doing something. It's just kabuki theater for those wanting a seat at the table and moreover grand kabuki theater for those pulling the strings.

When the hold back money gets released let me know. ALPA has taken up the position that although moneys were overpaid, one day the age may change again, and if that happens, ALPA will need the money.... So, rather than do the right thing, ALPA has chosen to do what it wants. Sounds like those that want their money back just need to get a lawyer and stop pushing people to run for office to go and get it for them. No one who runs for office can promise anyone their money back.

The numbers we're talking about.....back on topic. Likely they came from Hodges or Pierce. Not likely that Chuck, or anyone else for that matter would be knowledgeable enough to have the high fidelity info on that. I could be wrong, but the only other source for the numbers could be Muir, Zullo, or Abbot. I think Chuck's just trying to do the right thing and try to help those that feel like they can't help themselves.

if Hutchens wins, what has he pledged to do in order to return the overpayments back to the pilots? If he is "neutral" and is not biased against the former CAL pilots, then surely he would be indeed motivated by his sense of honesty and integrity and would champion the cause and see this as an opportunity to prove that a legacy United pilot can put aside his history for the sake of doing the right thing, and personally see to it that every red cent is accounted for and returned with interest. If he came out and said that, and he backed it up, then we'd have a real interesting horse race here.

Just my opinion as it relates to moneys and ALPA.

I disagree with ALPA taking the "hold back" in our first post merger contract. The UAL MEC was doing it right with respect to handling of military leave and the CAL MEC was doing it wrong. The lawsuit that resulted from that has been fought (by the company, and not by ALPA) for years now, and management has been unsuccessful in getting it dismissed. ALPA is punishing the former CAL pilots with respect to the hold back. It's a management problem, not a union problem. If CAL management wanted to mis-manage and mis-handle military leave pilots then that should be management's problem, not ALPA's. To date, ALPA hasn't been sued over it, so, in the words of Moses...Let my money go. or was that the people...I forget.

As it relates to the disability......This blows my mind. What the hell is ALPA thinking? This isn't their money at all. It was over-paid, and no one thinks otherwise. Not the plan, not management, and not ALPA. So, do the right thing and return the overpayments. If (and this has happened before) management over-pays your paycheck, you better believe they will go into your payrole account and deduct the moneys back out until things are square. You can't get away with taking an employee's money, and you can't get away with taking over-payments away, especially with regard to a third party insurer.

If ALPA wants the pilots to really support ALPA, then ALPA needs to treat folks fairly with respect to their finances. That's just an integrity issue for me as far as I am concerned. The reps should go on a hunger strike until the moneys are returned. It shouldn't be just Chuck Cummins falling on his sword to do the right thing.

Three post and all I see is insecurity. As far as Chuckie falling on his sword, he's more likely throwing the Houston pilots under the bus with his doom and gloom for personal gain. The facts are out there - would you care to take the time to read them--------

There is no "amount." An "amount" can only be determined by an actuarial firm that calculates current liabilities (pilots currently collecting benefits under the plan), and projected plan performance going forward. The company is NOT required to do ANYTHING to change the current funding situation. The "amount" will change (read increase as time goes buy due to less guys collecting due to retirement or death) because the plan liabilities will decrease. Just dividing the amount of money in the plan by the amount of L-CAL pilots is completely wrong and is a major reason this has become such an issue.

The money is in a trust fund that cannot be used for ANYTHING other than what it is currently being used for. ALPA cannot force the company to take on more liability, which is exactly what refunding the plan now would do, no matter how much anyone huffs and puffs.

Joe, my understanding is the fund has around $14M that will never be used. That money can be refunded because it will otherwise just sit there because, as you say, it cannot be used for any other purpose than LCAL pilots LTD. Therefore, it should be refunded. Regardless, the amount of money is a fraction of what Chuck states (I figure my portion is around $4K... a three day trip, not the month and a half pay Chuck mentions). Admittedly, my understanding could be way off from reality. I believe C5 discussed this recently in a blast mail, and the amount was significantly less than even the figure I came up with.