It's not even self study. It's filling a square by clicking on an arrow when the slide is done talking. The ESKV is an exercise in memorizing answers. There is no learning involved. There is no thinking involved.

The simulators are all scripted to the point that you know exactly what is coming next. The instructors cannot stray from the script and there is no extra time to say...hey, can you show me this? Or what happens if I do this?

Bottom line is its a bare bones, minimum cost, minimum time program. It was the 4th time I had been through a 737 initial so it didn't really bother me...but if I was a new hire that had never flown a guppy before..Then I'd say the training was inadequate or inferior.

 

Did you guys bring your own laptop to do the CBT's, or can you get to them with the iPad? Thanks

 

Couldn't be said better. That's exactly what it is. Usually the "cooperate and graduate" saying just applies to students. There, it seems to apply to the students and instructors as well--"don't ask questions and you'll finish on time and get out of here."

 

Here's my perspective, although not 737-specific:

For the relatively new guys: the largely-empty second floor at TK used to be the self-study Library. It was full of cubicles for watching the endless array of tape and slide shows (yes), using headphones devised by Machiavelli and Craftsman. It was narrated by a Jeppeson guy named "Archie;" he was the same narrator I heard in countless Air Force tutorials!!

My 727 Initial was classroom, self-study in the CBT modules, a "Master Question File" with about 3-400 questions you should know for the airplane (very similar to what we had in the Air Force), and an optional afternoon review session.

It was extremely effective. The voluntary reviews were usually packed, guys asked pertinent questions, and the instructors gave the missing pieces that were elusive.

My 747-400, 777, and A-320 courses were similar, although afternoon reviews were smaller or non-existent.

After many years of furlough and mil-leave, I came back to a much different training department.

Classroom academics were minimal, and did nothing to prepare me for my first sim.

The Master Question File was a mix of the CAL and UA 757/767 fleets (I was on the CAL side at the time), and none of us knew which airplane the questions related to....if at all.

The syllabus materials, which always rivalled the Air Force in quality of professional production, were haphazard, and in some cases, hand-written.

While afternoon reviews were advertised, I never actually saw one.

Result: the worst training I ever had at United, which prior to, had been equal to the best I had seen. It was as self-taught as you are discussing for the 737.

My point:

ALL of the changes in training were driven by a corporate push to "Reduce training costs." They shortened most of the courses (not just the 737), and shuffled events around to fit the schedule...but not necessarily the logical sequence for learning.

This meant you could get a guy out the door sooner (and cheaper), but it would cost far more when he hit the line for OE....because it took extra rides.

Don't turn this into an "us vs them" discussion. I did training in the north and south. And, I didn't mind the south facility, either. I'd say it was driven more by the corporate cheapening, and the relative lack of "Crosstalk" that could occur in the north. The various fleets there could exchange ideas and solutions for problems. The south used to be two fleets, and is now one. (I think...isn't the 787 at TK?)

I had good PIs at both locations.

I believe the training has started to move in the right direction, though. If I'm not mistaken, some courses HAVE been lengthened. I know there is finally an up to date 756 MQF---I've found it very valuable since we combined the fleets and I theoretically fly 5 different types. A friend of mine at TK has said some positive things about what they are trying to do for training.

I hope the "Library" at TK gets put back to good use, instead of the tiny little CBT room they have. It would be nice if the programs themselves were updated. And I'd love to see real afternoon reviews again. Real learning, not just conditioned responses.

But they had to do something. Because I thought it was difficult after having already done it before. I thought "If it's this difficult when you've already had some experience with it...what would it be like as a new-hire?"

I worry about that.

 

I'm hoping the expanded and combined DENTK will return to having the premier training status it once had.

Everyone, please, fill out Training critiques and PDRs. They are read and can make a difference.

 

I must be old school and not very self reliant because I was shocked at how ****ty the training was.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

Oh it's a ****show for sure - lol

 

As a guy waiting on a class date in Sept or Oct, this thread is worrisome to read. I'll be looking to get domiciled at EWR...if so, looks like choices there may be 737 or 756. I'm looking to train on whatever is easiest for a new-hire (prior mil, prior regional too) to succeed in, both for initial and for probationary year overall. I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to take any unnecessary chances either. So, by this thread it sounds like 756 training might be better than in the 737...but for the 756, there are more variants to keep up with, yes?
Any thoughts on which to choose from those who are in a position to comment?

 

Do not, I repeat, do not base your selection on the training. If you've got any semblance of brain power you will do fine with the 737 program. I'm old CAL and yes this course was a more do-it-yourself type run but was not hard. We've been cranking out safe, competent aviators who fly the 737 for years and while the training isn't up to snuff for some spoon fed types, it is adequate.

Could it use some improvement, absolutely but by the complaints registered above you'd a thunk there'd be a whole bunch of smoking holes all over the country due to its very low quality.

For new-hires, the 737's the way to go. More base choices, expanding fleet and you'll be holding a line and off reserve faster than any other type system wide.

Training is training and while not optimum, you will get through it and probably be based closer to where you actually want to be and having more days off than the 757.

As a PS, I HATE the antiquated 737 but I'm senior, I get to fly where I want and one day when I grow up I'll fly the big stuff.

 

It's never as bad as some people say and it's never as good as other people say. The truth lies somewhere in between.

I just finished 737 training and am in the middle of IOE. While I don't feel I know the systems extremely well, that's been the case with just about every training I've been through, military or civilian. To get to know the systems really well takes experience combined with personal study. Whether it's a CBT or an instructor talking at you, it's never a substitute for experience.

As far as flying the airplane, like any training I've been through, I feel like I had just enough to get by. Probably could have used a few more sims to just learn flying the plane without all the non-normals thrown in. But I also realize time is money. It was the same way at my previous airline.

I was lucky to have consistent instruction and instructors who genuinely seemed interested in my success. Was supposed to have 1 instructor for all my full flights leading up to the MV. Only reason I didn't was due to incompletes as a result of the sim breaking in Miami. Of all the folks in my indoc (23 new hires, all 737), have only heard of one individual having an issue on the LOE. As with every plane I've flown, the real learning begins on IOE.