737 training
 

Is all 737 systems training in IAH? I know the sim move schedules have been posted but does everyone as of now have to go to IAH for the first part of training?

Afraid you are going to miss out on a couple of weeks in the lovely metropolis Of Houston?

I think so yes. Construction has been going on for a while at the sim bays in DEN, but they are a ways away from moving sims.

Another question would be how much outsourced contract training is being done off site. Nor sure. Good luck.

You will be in iah. You wont get systems "training" though. F/O I flew with recently was transitionjng to the 756 and said the best part of coming off the 73 was not having to unlearn anything. Didn't learn it in the first place.

What about 756 transition classes, any of that still done in IAH or is it all DENTK now?

SP

Dentk for the 756.

What is the rumor for the opening of the 737 training in Denver? I'll be starting Indoc in Oct, and will try to bid the 737 - just curious.

That is good news - Thanks Scott!

Not soon enough. You'll be in Houston.

Worst training I ever went through in my entire life....KB and his crew should be ashamed of themselves.......737 training can't get cleaned out and up to DEN fast enough.

Having gone through both school houses, there's no comparison.

Elabortae
 

Can you elaborate on the training deficiencies? Also, I currently live in San Antonio so being in Houston isn't a bad thing in my case.

Its not a rumor. It's happening, just a matter of when.
As far as the differences, think college campus with cafeteria vs. airplane hanger. I can't speak to the training.:cool:

I have a friend who is in Miami for his five full-motion simulators. Then back to Houston for the last 4 days of the course. It seems most... But not all... people are going to Miami.

Different instructors everyday. Zero consistency between any of the instructors, especially the ground guys. Retired pilots that don't know the systems and don't care. Most of them seem to just be there to collect a pay check and just teach to the test. KB has zero oversight and not a clue whats going on.

To be fair the PIs in the Full Flight Sims were pretty good but had a new instructor everyday. However, by the time you get to those guys you are supposed to know the FM and systems, but since they only teach the test and can't answer any questions harder than the surface you will be behind.

I spent more time self studying at night, every night, than I did in the training center.

737 is a pretty much teach yourself course. CAL was def. more do it yourself training vs UAL's spoon fed courses. I do agree that the CAL way is worse but didn't find it as terrible as many on here have posted.

Plus 1.....!!!!!!!

Down in IAH last week. First FFS to be relocated was to be unplugged this week. From now on they're short sims and will be using Miami more.

So if I bid 73 and ask scheduling for Mia sims, how long do u go to IAH, and then how long MIA?

I doubt they'd let you choose. They'll just give you a schedule.

Two weeks in iah, then any combination of any sim available after that. I was in Mia for full flight (b's), but in iah for fbs (a's). It could literally be any combination of days...

Also agree that you won't get a choice. They were very inflexible re:changes they didn't create. Other than the PI's (who were very good), the rest was very weak. The biggest improvement would be instructor continuity in that regard. The AI's need a complete rework and housecleaning IMHO. To be honest, a rewrite of the entire syllabus would be in order if I had my way. Waaayyyy too much focus on the skv and virtually no support to get there.

Thanks Scott

It's the best course that you can teach to yourself.

Can you elaborate on your experience as well? Thanks. All good info.

This.......exactly spot on! Did IAH 737 in 2013 and Bus TK last December, like two completely different worlds. A gentleman's course vs a dumpster fire

Lol, ain't that the truth!

The "teach yourself" a misnomer. You are taught systems by a CBT instead of a person. Its not like they throw you the FM and say learn it.

Personally I like it better than sitting in a classroom all day, you do the modules when you want. If you are the self reliant type you will like it, if you are old school type that needs spoon feeding and diaper changing you probably won't.

Then why not stay home for systems as a distance learning course, take the eskv, pass, and show up for fixed based sims with flows memorized?

A classroom setting leads to discussion and knowledge. But it also costs $$$.

And there is an exam covering all the major systems. If I remember there were 10 sections and you have to pass each one. But it is pretty much entirely self study.

When I went through we did have system review days with an instructor to ask questions and discuss. However I prefer interactive and being able to freeplay with the systems in the modules, I learn more.

It's not even self study. It's filling a square by clicking on an arrow when the slide is done talking. The ESKV is an exercise in memorizing answers. There is no learning involved. There is no thinking involved.

The simulators are all scripted to the point that you know exactly what is coming next. The instructors cannot stray from the script and there is no extra time to say...hey, can you show me this? Or what happens if I do this?

Bottom line is its a bare bones, minimum cost, minimum time program. It was the 4th time I had been through a 737 initial so it didn't really bother me...but if I was a new hire that had never flown a guppy before..Then I'd say the training was inadequate or inferior.

737 training CBT's
 

Did you guys bring your own laptop to do the CBT's, or can you get to them with the iPad? Thanks

Couldn't be said better. That's exactly what it is. Usually the "cooperate and graduate" saying just applies to students. There, it seems to apply to the students and instructors as well--"don't ask questions and you'll finish on time and get out of here."

Here's my perspective, although not 737-specific:

For the relatively new guys: the largely-empty second floor at TK used to be the self-study Library. It was full of cubicles for watching the endless array of tape and slide shows (yes), using headphones devised by Machiavelli and Craftsman. It was narrated by a Jeppeson guy named "Archie;" he was the same narrator I heard in countless Air Force tutorials!!

My 727 Initial was classroom, self-study in the CBT modules, a "Master Question File" with about 3-400 questions you should know for the airplane (very similar to what we had in the Air Force), and an optional afternoon review session.

It was extremely effective. The voluntary reviews were usually packed, guys asked pertinent questions, and the instructors gave the missing pieces that were elusive.

My 747-400, 777, and A-320 courses were similar, although afternoon reviews were smaller or non-existent.

After many years of furlough and mil-leave, I came back to a much different training department.

Classroom academics were minimal, and did nothing to prepare me for my first sim.

The Master Question File was a mix of the CAL and UA 757/767 fleets (I was on the CAL side at the time), and none of us knew which airplane the questions related to....if at all.

The syllabus materials, which always rivalled the Air Force in quality of professional production, were haphazard, and in some cases, hand-written.

While afternoon reviews were advertised, I never actually saw one.

Result: the worst training I ever had at United, which prior to, had been equal to the best I had seen. It was as self-taught as you are discussing for the 737.

My point:

ALL of the changes in training were driven by a corporate push to "Reduce training costs." They shortened most of the courses (not just the 737), and shuffled events around to fit the schedule...but not necessarily the logical sequence for learning.

This meant you could get a guy out the door sooner (and cheaper), but it would cost far more when he hit the line for OE....because it took extra rides.

Don't turn this into an "us vs them" discussion. I did training in the north and south. And, I didn't mind the south facility, either. I'd say it was driven more by the corporate cheapening, and the relative lack of "Crosstalk" that could occur in the north. The various fleets there could exchange ideas and solutions for problems. The south used to be two fleets, and is now one. (I think...isn't the 787 at TK?)

I had good PIs at both locations.

I believe the training has started to move in the right direction, though. If I'm not mistaken, some courses HAVE been lengthened. I know there is finally an up to date 756 MQF---I've found it very valuable since we combined the fleets and I theoretically fly 5 different types. A friend of mine at TK has said some positive things about what they are trying to do for training.

I hope the "Library" at TK gets put back to good use, instead of the tiny little CBT room they have. It would be nice if the programs themselves were updated. And I'd love to see real afternoon reviews again. Real learning, not just conditioned responses.

But they had to do something. Because I thought it was difficult after having already done it before. I thought "If it's this difficult when you've already had some experience with it...what would it be like as a new-hire?"

I worry about that.

I'm hoping the expanded and combined DENTK will return to having the premier training status it once had.

Everyone, please, fill out Training critiques and PDRs. They are read and can make a difference.

I must be old school and not very self reliant because I was shocked at how ****ty the training was.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Oh it's a ****show for sure - lol

As a guy waiting on a class date in Sept or Oct, this thread is worrisome to read. I'll be looking to get domiciled at EWR...if so, looks like choices there may be 737 or 756. I'm looking to train on whatever is easiest for a new-hire (prior mil, prior regional too) to succeed in, both for initial and for probationary year overall. I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to take any unnecessary chances either. So, by this thread it sounds like 756 training might be better than in the 737...but for the 756, there are more variants to keep up with, yes?
Any thoughts on which to choose from those who are in a position to comment?

Do not, I repeat, do not base your selection on the training. If you've got any semblance of brain power you will do fine with the 737 program. I'm old CAL and yes this course was a more do-it-yourself type run but was not hard. We've been cranking out safe, competent aviators who fly the 737 for years and while the training isn't up to snuff for some spoon fed types, it is adequate.

Could it use some improvement, absolutely but by the complaints registered above you'd a thunk there'd be a whole bunch of smoking holes all over the country due to its very low quality. :rolleyes:

For new-hires, the 737's the way to go. More base choices, expanding fleet and you'll be holding a line and off reserve faster than any other type system wide.

Training is training and while not optimum, you will get through it and probably be based closer to where you actually want to be and having more days off than the 757.

As a PS, I HATE the antiquated 737 but I'm senior, I get to fly where I want and one day when I grow up I'll fly the big stuff.

It's never as bad as some people say and it's never as good as other people say. The truth lies somewhere in between.

I just finished 737 training and am in the middle of IOE. While I don't feel I know the systems extremely well, that's been the case with just about every training I've been through, military or civilian. To get to know the systems really well takes experience combined with personal study. Whether it's a CBT or an instructor talking at you, it's never a substitute for experience.

As far as flying the airplane, like any training I've been through, I feel like I had just enough to get by. Probably could have used a few more sims to just learn flying the plane without all the non-normals thrown in. But I also realize time is money. It was the same way at my previous airline.

I was lucky to have consistent instruction and instructors who genuinely seemed interested in my success. Was supposed to have 1 instructor for all my full flights leading up to the MV. Only reason I didn't was due to incompletes as a result of the sim breaking in Miami. Of all the folks in my indoc (23 new hires, all 737), have only heard of one individual having an issue on the LOE. As with every plane I've flown, the real learning begins on IOE.