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Delta Scope give.
There is one issue for which even if it was the single bad item I would gladly vote a TA down. I will consider most any "give" depending on the package, but I will never agree to give up future jobs especially not the highest paying jobs.
For those not wanting to read the language and interpret it for themselves here's the cliff note version . . . . The new Delta TA allows Delta to reduce their share of Atlantic flying in their Joint Venture with Air France and KLM from 50/50 to 46.5/53.5. It is true this only represents a couple 3-4 city pairs and the total block hours are not supposed to go down, but the fact is the Delta boys are about to hand over some of their best paying jobs and set the pattern that US pilots will give up their best paying jobs for pay raises. The first paragraph is the old language; the second paragraph is the new language. 4. The amount of flying subject to the AF/KL/AZ JV for Bundle 1 was determined from an 13 EASK baseline period (the baseline EASK). The baseline EASK allocations are 50% for 14 DL and 50% for AF/KL/AZ. Effective with the three-year measurement period ending 15 on March 31, 2011 (including applicable AZ flying during the 12-month measurement 16 period of April 1, 2010 to March 31, 2011 only), the Company shall maintain no less than 17 48.50% of the EASK capacity share in this measurement period (Company’s baseline 18 EASK allocation minus 1.50%). A new three-year rolling measurement period will begin 19 April 1, 2011 and the actual capacity share percentages for all previous years will be 20 disregarded for capacity share measurement purposes. In the case of the rolling three- 21 year measurement periods ending March 31, 2014, and thereafter, the Company shall be 22 required to maintain no less than 48.50% (Company’s baseline EASK allocation minus 23 1.50%) of the total EASK capacity subject to the provisions of Section 1 P. 6. 24 4. Effective with the one-year measurement period beginning January 1, 2016, and 25 continuing for each 12-month measurement period thereafter, the baseline EASK share 26 for Bundle 1 is 47.5% for DL and 52.5% for AF/KL/AZ. For each successive two 27 measurement periods combined (a “two calendar-year period”; such two calendar-year 28 period would be January 1, 2016 to December 31, 2017 and January 1, 2018 to December 29 31, 2019, etc.), the Company’s Bundle 1 EASKs flown in accordance with the provisions 30 of the AF/KL/AZ JV agreement in the first year of a two calendar-year period and in the 31 second year of the same two calendar-year period will on average be no less than 46.5% 32 of the Bundle 1 EASKs flown in accordance with the provisions of the AF/KL/AZ JV 33 agreement. |
Vote yes. It will make Delta geat again
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Originally Posted by Sunvox
(Post 2224077)
There is one issue for which even if it was the single bad item I would gladly vote a TA down. I will consider most any "give" depending on the package, but I will never agree to give up future jobs especially not the highest paying jobs.
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Sun,
But what gains or status quo does their scope section contain? Does now having a min block hours of all international flying not a good thing? No "cure" or multi year look back period anymore? No further increase to size or number of allowable large RJ aircraft? As you know everything is a negotiation, so are the other parts of the scope section worth the lesser percentage on the Atlantic JV? Something the Delta pilots will have to decide. ALPA EF&A will have crunched the numbers on what effect (if any) the scope changes mean in terms of flying hours and jobs. You and I don't know enough of their history and actual day to day effects of their contract to say it is a good or bad section. Looking back at our own history, we left bankruptcy without ever filling in the 1-F-1 min block hours. Once that number was negotiated later, it was low enough that it meant we could park the 737 fleet and still be in compliance. A fact which a MEC member pointed out (Neil S.) but a low number was still better then no number at all at the time. Guess what happened? We parked the 737 fleet. My folks still ask about you so hope all is well with life up north. G |
Originally Posted by Sunvox
(Post 2224077)
There is one issue for which even if it was the single bad item I would gladly vote a TA down. I will consider most any "give" depending on the package, but I will never agree to give up future jobs especially not the highest paying jobs.
For those not wanting to read the language and interpret it for themselves here's the cliff note version . . . . The new Delta TA allows Delta to reduce their share of Atlantic flying in their Joint Venture with Air France and KLM from 50/50 to 46.5/53.5. It is true this only represents a couple 3-4 city pairs and the total block hours are not supposed to go down, but the fact is the Delta boys are about to hand over some of their best paying jobs and set the pattern that US pilots will give up their best paying jobs for pay raises. The first paragraph is the old language; the second paragraph is the new language. It's a complicated issue but to blanket statement saying that this TA "gives up jobs" is making a lot of assumptions. |
Originally Posted by C11DCA
(Post 2224127)
Sun,
But what gains or status quo does their scope section contain? . . . My folks still ask about you so hope all is well with life up north. G Tell your folks I said "Hi". I hope they are doing well also!! As to me all is well and still the same. Married with 3 great kids. Sadly the oldest is off to college :eek: where did the time go?? Seems only yesterday we were hanging out in Danbury and dreaming of better things to come and now look at us; all growed up and everything.
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
(Post 2224189)
. . .
Doesn't mean that they are "handing over jobs" in and of itself, just means that they might allow AF/KLM to fly a few of the Atlantic routes if desired. Those aircraft might be better utilized somewhere else on more profitable routes. |
Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2224113)
How did you vote on United's C2012?
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Originally Posted by svergin
(Post 2224226)
I voted yes. I never imagined that I'd see work rules like we have now and I didn't want to delay the implementation just so a few more bids could go out and guys could lock in upgrades or delay the SLI even further.
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Any scope/jv gives would be an automatic No vote from me. But...
There is no capital investment (at least, limited) with JV relationships and can be negotiated back....buying another 50 rjs on the other hand was a threat to us because it would have moved the line on scope, yet again. They/we would never have been able to negotiate it back because of the cash involved. DAL negotiated what was important to them, and we will need to do the same in the next round. Again, I would not vote for this at UAL, but I don't think that this fundamentally changes our negotiating position moving forward. |
Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2224245)
I hear you. I was not making a judgement on C2012 only on Sunvox's chest puffing regarding the Delta TA.
Anyways . . . In my career the only contracts I've had were 1) 2000 which was an across the board win (or so it seemed) 2) 2 contracts in bankruptcy both of which I sent emails to the MEC saying we should test whether striking in bankruptcy was legal (which American later proved was a viable concern) and then 3) 2012 2012 had nothing to do with general issues and could have called for any number of concessions and I would have voted for it just to end the merger shenanigans and get everyone on the same team. For the record I think you will find the vast majority of L-UAL pilots felt the same way. The Delta TA is being proffered at a time when concessions are simply not necessary. I understand and have read the Delta union explanation that the percentages involved reflect Air France's use of the A380, but I don't think the union should be tasked with solving the stupidity of an Air France management decision. That's like letting the Chinese dump cheap steel because their factories over produced. Too bad for them. Not our problem. Giving them a pass sets a bad precedent. |
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