Western Global/21Air contracting to end
 

6/29/19.

UPS is so short of pilots and lift that they began contracting with Western Global for 6 MD11s, 21Air for 2 767s, and a Star 767 in Europe. This is a clear violation of the contract with the IPA pilots.

IPA will receive 3 extra days of vacation per IPA pilot or 15 hours of pay. While this blatant violation of the UPS/IPA contract is unnerving to state the least it is reassuring to have an end date and a substantial penalty for UPS.

The IPA did a good job on this. Best part is there is an end date in sight. Honestly it I think 3 days of vacation was a little light. Glad to see the IPA get us something out of this. I guess ups didn’t buy the right arbitrator.

It seems a little light also, but when I do the math it is a fair number to us.

It’s costing some of us hundreds of thousands while others it impacts little or not at all. I agree with your assessment.

It costs us all in the sense of missed upgrades, etc...8 or 9 widebodies is probably a yearly system bid...

1.5 years of subcontracting and all we get are 3 BV days or 15 hrs pay ($2,600). I was definitely expecting more than that.
But hopefully this will put the fire to UPS to buy more airplanes ASAP.

Yup, totally weak......just don't mention it on the B&G,,,,but we all know what most pilots are thinking.......

BT said in a previous video the subcontracting flying represented 13 lines of flying.

~$12M penalty for 18 months of subcontracting is $8M/year, and when divided by 26 pilots gives a per-pilot annual average north of $307k.

Of course we’d all like more, but that checks...

We are also scheduled to take 27 more airplanes (15 -8F, 3 767BCF, 9 767F) between now and the end of 2020 to go with the six -8 we’ve already had delivered.

Boiler, it actually would be a bit more than that if we take into consideration what the 7 airplanes on property gives them. International airplanes are staffed at 10 CPT's per airplane and 13 F/O's per plane. 7 planes would equate to 70+91= 161 Bodies on property, using your average of 300K you are talking north of 48 mil a year. So yes this 230 dollars a pay period is weak. UPS got off easy and now they will find another way of tightening the screws or another way of circumventing our CBA because it saves them money. Smart on their part.

While I get that perspective, it is hard to argue damages for what they COULD be doing with those airframes as opposed to what they ARE doing with them.

I get it, but you can't just say 13 lines of flying, what about the reserve coverage for those lines, you have to go by what the airplanes provide them and crew to airplane ratio.

they don't carry enough reserves anyways. They probably wouldn't add any for 13 lines of flying.

[QUOTE=PastV1by10;2626483]Boiler, it actually would be a bit more than that if we take into consideration what the 7 airplanes on property gives them. International airplanes are staffed at 10 CPT's per airplane and 13 F/O's per plane. 7 planes would equate to 70+91= 161 Bodies on property, using your average of 300K you are talking north of 48 mil a year. So yes this 230 dollars a pay period is weak. UPS got off easy and now they will find another way of tightening the screws or another way of circumventing our CBA because it saves them money. Smart on their part.[/QUOTE

Your argument is not applicable in this case. Are Western Global and Air 21 (whatever the 767 subcontractor is called) being used Internationally? Perhaps your analysis would be more accurate if you used domestic staffing in your equation.

They did before we voted this POS of a contract in. Ask the union what the total number of reserve lines were prior to voting this thing in vs now. Doubt those numbers are forthcoming anytime soon.

[QUOTE=package puppy;2626671]I thought it was international flying, either way it lowers the number by about 10 mil a year but still not the 230 a PP. Guess it’s better than TLV pay, we got that going for us.

Without OCV, most assuredly the reserve lines would be higher right now. OCV coupled with unplanned UPS growth has caused UPS to be short staffed.
Article 13.1.B.1, didn't change in this latest contract "Minimum reserve staffing by status and equipment in each domicile will be at
least ten percent (10%), rounded to the next higher whole number."

UPS does carry this minimum of Reserves to scheduled lines. When UPS had excess pilots, they carried extra reserves (up to 22%) for years. When they are short pilots, they only have contractual reserves. Its not a mystery UPS is very short of pilots. So less reserve lines. How is this "current"IPA fault? Hasn't changed since the first contract. So are you blaming the first contract voters? IPA attempted to raise to 20% in this past negotiation. OCV certainly contributed as mentioned to shortfalls of available pilots, thus contractual reserve staffing and no more (pilots not around anyway yet).
Some argue that means more JA money to those inclined and this a better deal for some. Some fleets and seats reserves are not used all that much while a few others are working every or most every day.
You assign blame to the union when all airlines unions are handicapped by advantages provided to corporations explicitly by the RLA. The Arbitrator sets the verdict. IPA can and does ask for far more, however, the law doesn't provide for damages, just costs.
IPA could have asked for only MD crews and 75/76 crews to receive the payout and it would have been more substantial (just like those who bid the recovery lines on reserve). However, the choice was to allow all IPA pilots to receive a share of the awarded cost of doing the business according to the Arbitrator decision. I'm guessing some senior MD and 75/76 crews would have been OK with the few take the pie option. Alas, 2700+ IPA pilots will share the award. Certainly makes it less, but blame RLA and Arbitration for final verdict shortfalls.

So your saying the contract in it’s current form didn’t provide any consessions to reduce the number of reserve lines? The shiftable and reserve extensions didn’t provide any flexibility to the company to be able to reduce the 22% number? Come on man even the average line slug getting abused can see that.

You’re

Its

grammarly.com perhaps, if basic grammar is too tough?

I just quickly flipped through a couple of bid packages, doesn’t look like they are skimping on reserve lines. What evidence do you have to present to support your case?

I'm not trying to support anyone's case, but at least on my fleet the only reserve shifts currently available are RSVB or RSVA. No longer have any RSVD lines and no longer have an early HSBY.

Maybe that's not skimping, ;) but it's a shift choice no longer available to bid. Its not a stretch to assume they don't need that coverage any more due to the shift-able reserves and extension language. Its also not a stretch to assume they wouldn't have the bodies for it anyway.

:D

[QUOTE=PastV1by10;2626693]
When does the DUB/SHN payment start?

[QUOTE=jetlaggy;2628032]After you are eligible for your third BV day.....

[QUOTE=FrontSeat2;2628798]Doubt that is true

[QUOTE=jetlaggy;2628032]By the beginning of 18-06, half the payment of TLV. 600 vs 300 so instead of $60 a pay period you will see $30 if they don't comply.

You’d never know from reading these threads that it’s as good as it’s ever been at UPS as a pilot. Dude in ANC ops was bragging about having already made $400k this year. Not sure if that’s true, but 747 guys are making bank.

Only if you’re talking about money.

Halarious high five up in the ANC crashpad.

I doubt the amount but either way, I sincerely hope he or she wasn’t bragging while our minimum-wage flight ops admins were present? :eek:
Some of the comments I’ve heard in the past makes you wonder if people even know what the average person typically makes?? :(

As far as the claim made by that 74 workoholic, I’ve been comparing the typical 74 pay to my buds on the Z and MD and it’s about the same. So take all that bragging with a grain of salt.

More importantly please ask him or her to take those comments elsewhere, away from people who’re working their butts off trying to make our lives easier for a whopping ~$32K a year. :(

For the record, I’m the guy bragging about having 8 weeks off due to OCV...but not in earshot of any other non-pilot.

On the surface, perhaps appears that way, but reserve lines from Ops reports suggest still overall around historical numbers.

Pilots on reserve definitely get called far more often. If no growth, and every pilot took the extra money instead of vacation time OCV, I'm certain reserve pilots would be called less as in past times.

Regarding shiftable reserves? They stay on same call period as non shiftable the absolute majority of the time.
Rare to see the actual shift.

Reserve extension: UPS gave up 16 days Reserve in 1998 to 15 in 2006, then gave up 15 in 2016 to 14. In all contracts, UPS had contractual ability to extend pilots on reserve into days off for certain parameters. Parameters varied over the last 20 years, but always existed and allowed weather/ mechanical and international provisions.
Domestically, only one day (back to original 2006 15 mandatory which could be extended back then. Now, could do 15, like 2006 contract.
If you look at the extensions, every IPA pilot who sits on reserve sits a guaranteed one less day. Even if extended, still on the road contractually in this CBA less days than any previous contract plus get paid better for an extension.

Cheers

Is this for sure to end? I'm hearing all sorts of rumors that UPS isn't really going away for us here at WGN.

Not trying to put salt in anyone's eye over this, I just keep hearing conflicting information.

All UPS-subcontracted flying currently performed by Western Global and 21Air to be transferred to IPA pilots flying Browntails no later than 29 June 2019, per an arbitrator’s consent award.

Got it. One of the versions/responses that I'm hearing is the UPS management will bite the bullet, continue the contract, and just pay more vacation days as a penalty to the pilots and the union because it's still cheaper. Is that possible? JW

Only if UPS wants to flaunt an arbitrator's decision.

I see absolutely ZERO circumstance in which the IPA would agree to an extension beyond the arbitrator's consent award, ESPECIALLY given we've taken delivery of five 748 and one 763BCF this year, will take one more 748 and two more 763BCFs by the end of the year, and in 2019 will get six additional 748s and four or five factory new 763s.

The company can't claim "we don't have lift!" anymore.

Got it. That's what I thought, thanks for the clarification. Hopefully I'll be on your team someday.

Safe travels.

And to add one more piece, the award is enforceable in court, meaning we can get an immediate injunction IF the company doesn’t end it by the specified date. Language was pretty clear. Never know what can happen, but the arbitrators decision was pretty clear and gives the IPA a clear win in case the company wants to do it again (outside of the normal subcontracting allowed).

The company is not going to end it and 2 maybe 4 years from now we will have a few more banked vacation days. Big Fing deal, and this is what most crews are talking about aside from the bar and grill where it is forbidden to express your views unless you align with the 10 people who post on there.

I rather have the jobs (you cannot say that on the bar and grill). BV days do not add much to a persons life that is borderline becoming a captain or junior in their seat and would like a few extra bodies under them. It really only benefits the senior captains.

The company won. Not fair and not square.

Have you read the summary judgement with the clear language regarding court enforcement? If the company does not stop it by end date, the IPA will have a court injunction the next day, yes, it was that clear. I don’t know where you are getting your info.

I am LOL so hard....

The number of crews I've heard express this sentiment is zero, but I've also noticed the crews I fly with tend to be on the well informed side.

I, too would rather have the jobs. Thanks to the arbitrator's ruling, hiring IPA pilots is now the most cost-effective way to move volume subject to Article One. Job well done.

I'm not a senior captain, but I'm happy to have the BV days. I get that you're not, and I respect that.

I was sort of with you most of the way but I stop here. I guess people would call me a senior captain at this point and a bv day or two is not any more valuable to me than to a junior person, arguably less as I'm largely able to avoid the short trips that those help with. I know of no one at any seniority level that wouldn't want more IPA bodies under them.