cessnapilot

I’m sorry if you feel attacked, that certainly wasn’t my intention. You’re correct, I see that your response was trying to clean up what MrBoBRoss posted. Sorry.

Having been at five airlines, on strike, at a bankrupt airline, and last on the list... I’m very cautious these days about giving career advice! There are a lot of variables.

BoilerUP

"More" is subjective; are we talking more calendar days, more block hours, more TAFB?

I would submit that is a fundamental difference between operations with trips that pay predominately on block vs. those paid predominately on rig.

cessnapilot

more calendar days. I agree about soft vs hard pay, which is why I think our min pay per duty period lacks. I see an open trip right now... 2 days, just over 8 hours pay.

C2078

To your point, I find it very easy to reach an average of 1,100 hours of pay credit per calendar year working an average of 12-13 days per pay period and flying 450-500 hours. Are Legacy + SW folks able to do this? My guess would be it takes a lot of creative bidding. The theme with UPS, to me, is you can work less and make the same or more. Just my opinion.

FTv3

Show at 3 pm, fly to ONT, layover, fly back, home by noon, gone like 20 hours for 8 hrs of pay...that one? Life sux!!

cessnapilot

its 2 days. And no... the one I looked at had a ground shuttle, fly, layover, fly, ground shuttle. That would be 12 hours credit at some carriers. I look at how many days I go to work, and as someone else pointed out, they work 13 days a bid period, that’s 14 days a calendar month. My only point is you can work fewer calendar days for 81 hours a calendar month at many legacies. I’m not sure why there is such push back to this idea. Sounds like you’re happy and don’t see a need for change. Great! We are well compensated, but we work hard for it... I’ll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

FTv3

If that were truly the case then this would have been the first and only sentence of your post. I’ll respect that what you really want is to not continue the argument, so I won’t re-engage. The larger point I was trying to make in my last post was is this all really so bad? What we do as pilots? The schedules we work at the major leagues? So we have an 8 hr two day...At the end of the day we all kind of work the same amount of days and if you factor in the profit sharing at the legacies, we all get basically the same gross income. You cherry pick the bad schedule examples, I cherry pick the good ones - neither perspective is any more definitive than the other. The stink is we aren’t debating legacies vs express cargo. As BobRoss’s post pointed out, one could choose to grind it out at places like Spirit or Frontier or coast through “easier,” work experiences at FedEx/UPS.

On this tangent: “Sounds like you’re happy and don’t see a need for change.” You are making wild assumptions then creating a narrative around them, all of which miss the center fo the dartboard by a wide margin. Sorry. The guy is looking for help making a decision on staying at NK or taking a UPS class. No need to come after me.

WhenPigsFLy

Leaving spirit a airline to come to a trucking company. Come on over you can learn the hard way!!!

C2078

While we are most definitely a trucking company, I wouldn’t call Spirit a “top notch” operation. A decent job for sure, but if you are alluding to UPS being inferior due to the culture/operation, that would be a very wrong assessment IMO.

SaltyDog

For non UPS looking at this discussion:

Days is a subjective application dependent on if local or commuter and start/end time of trip.
We are often paid "trip rig" (highest pay earnings) on a trip that leaves domicile, lays over, then return to domicile on Time Away From Base (TAFB)
Trip Rig is 3.75 pay hours for a trip
If TAFB=48 hours "2 days" = 48/3.75= 12.8 hours contractual pay. (unless flew more block hours in the 48 hours, then would be paid greater of the two. Example: Fly 7 block hours out on 2 legs, operate two legs back at 7 hours would be paid 14 hours pay in the 48 hour period.
TAFB 20 hours = 5.33 per trip rig, but block hours usually exceed 5.33 so paid on block.
TAFB 36 hours "2 days" =9.6 per trip rig. Effectively that is "2 calendar days" for planning purposes, but it is only a "day and a half" but same as other airlines
Trip rig is the usual pay calculation as pays greater pay per flight pay credit in our contract.
If do a Turn, pay =6 hours since pays more
Minimum Pay Per Duty Period (MPDP) (usually sims) =4 hours
Hot Airport Standby = 5.5 hours min

If a commuter, then transit time into/out of domicile can reduce pay incentive as adds self "TAFB". and if look strictly at "days" and a commuter, but if look at TAFB (overnight so "2 days" but really day and a half, can see why many (commuters) would see low compensation for additional transit required.

However, a resident in domicile may like the "2 day" (actually 1.5 days ) 0300 show on Tuesday and be back on ground in domicile 3PM on Wednesday of only flew one ( and DH) or two legs. Get paid 9.6 hours unless flew a longer block sequence of more than Trip Rig, say 2 legs out at 6.5 hours, and a 4 hour return flight pays 10.5 hours pay

Hope this helps some understand if TAFB is "2 days" if 48 hours, get min of 12.8 hours, but if out 36 hours (1.5 days, but a full Tuesday and partial Wednesday "2 days" pay can be 9.6 hours.
Pilots living in domicile more likely to enjoy the "2 day" trip since no commuting and still enjoy Wednesday free time at home after a full Tuesday (single overnight for a trip between anywhere 9 and 13 hours pay)
Also, we do have a few lines of schedules that work only 11 days (senior) in 28 and still get the guarantee pay for 75 hours.
Eye of beholder.

Hope this helps the non UPS pilot see the two presentations.