See posts # 3 & 8. It should answer your questions. Basically no major changes and COLA pay increases. The ‘real’ contract negotiations will happen a few years later..

Sounds like me and about a thousand of my best friends will be gone by then. Crazy. I hope all you new guys are ready for the fight of your lives!

2021 cpt $351
fo. $249

2022 cpt $362
fo. $256

That thought is crazy to me. I came here expecting to wait a decade to upgrade, now it’s right around the corner. We will definitely have to be ready for a slog. I’m guessing the company will go all in trying to kill OCV, the pension, and our healthcare.

I’ve watched the video and the links and will vote yes.

The only concern I have with this agreement is the fact Bob T. might choose to retire from his position now that we won’t be negotiating for a few more years.. (IF the TA passes, which I believe it will)

Leaders prefer to leave on their own terms and historically speaking there’s no better time to leave than after a ‘peace treaty’ (TA) has been signed...

I hope he stays on for the next battle.

I believe this is a win for the IPA and I will be a yes vote. That being said I find it hard to believe we gave up nothing. The company wants something just don’t know what, can’t trust those *********s.

Just read your B plan improved to 13% also

Not true. Only Defined Benefit (A plan) improvement.

Forgot to add, I was also hoping for an over-cap B-plan cash payout once we reach IRS limits.. I believe this provision was given up in the ‘06 contract?

All captains and many FOs reach IRS retirement savings limits which is when the company stops contributing to our B-plans..
I’d rather pay 99% in taxes on whatever the cash payouts might be than to just give it up to the company.

I might be misunderstanding the issue but I vividly remember senior captains telling me how they used to get the over-cap check overages once they reached their IRS limit.

Still a yes voter but I wish the company had to pay us 12% whether we reach the IRS cap or not...

_____
Kronan - C2078 is correct, there are no changes to our B-plan.

The TA will give us another contact w/OCV, higher book rates, in theory, making it harder for the company to argue against them in 2023

I agree that the EB’s logic in taking this TA is sound. However, the company may be gambling that we will be in a downturn giving them leverage to ask for givebacks. We would decline and the negotiations would undoubtedly drag out. Like most new guys here, I’m close enough to retirement that I won’t sacrifice A plan or Bplan. OCV has only become more valuable with the improvements in the TA. I could negotiate a long time making our pay if I had to. Hope not, but we’ll see

I hope not as well, but, we just a achieved a reprieve on that mindset. Now we will have a larger sample set to draw from, obviously for the better (we hope). So worst case scenario we obtained monetary improvements having given nothing up. So our baseline in Sep 2022 (1 year before new amendable date) will be higher and better codified into contract language. Everyone has their opinion, we shall see who is right in a couple of years.

By the way, maybe just me, heard nothing of downturn from videos, just being on the other side of everyone else’s negotiations. That is a gamble, no doubt. They are betting momentum is on our side. Anyone who has a crystal ball, please share, we all would love to see the future...

UPS is most definitely not stupid, they agreed to this for a reason. And they may of just shot themselves in the foot on certain issues. But to say we beat on this TA is very shortsighted and naive. They know or at least they think know what they are doing short and long term. The most important issue is to stay alert and informed.

We will see hiring stop with virus. If it continues for 6 months same or worse or gets into US, then we will see actions and options like offered in great recession.

Does anyone know when the amazon contract ends? is it 2023 ?

And we will all be furloughed and the company will fold 🤦‍♂️

UAL doesn’t have a TA to vote on that I know of, AAL is picketing, and DAL went straight to NMB.

I would believe the company is now regretting offering the contract extension.

Why is that?
We'd all better vote, 50% +1 of eligible voters is a much higher hurdle than the plain old 50%+1. Not voting is a no vote.

Im just saying that if the virus spreads in the US, and spreads to more countries, we could be looking at a grim economic period of time. Hopefully we get a handle on this, but I’m not sure UPS would be willing to extend the contract with the possibility of bad economic time ahead. Just my opinion, and yes please vote, as a failure to do so is a no vote.

You’re probably right.. Timing is everything.

Its better to be lucky than good. Our timing with this TA couldn’t have been better for us. I agree that the company probably would have slow rolled us if they saw this virus coming.

Sometimes we obtain great results by having leverage/unity, sometimes we get screwed, and this time we will take luck!!! Nothing wrong with that. Ever since I got here a few years ago our EB has been on a roll, win after win, yes, after many years getting our butts kicked. It was time. This EB does seem to have the pulse of the pilot group and the industry. Luck always helps!! What a difference 30-60 days MIGHT of made...

I don't disagree at all, this thing could be very challenging to the world beyond the obvious health implications. Major companies like Nestlé for example are banning corporate travel which won't be good for the passenger airlines. Coke is warning that there may be a sweetener shortage, and drug companies are feeling their supply lines pinched. Just a few small examples, but none of this is good for a company that makes its money off of world commerce.

Anyone seeing any givebacks in this? I’m a yes voter but find it hard to believe we didn’t give anything up. Not confident every change to the contract has been brought up to the membership.

How can you be this stupid when the EB published EVERYTHING, the EXACT language to be voted on? This is the type of stupidity that drives me crazy. There are no back room deals, no concessions, everything is very clear in front of you and you want to instill FUD, basically calling the EB crooked? Unbelievable!!

So you think the EB is lying to us? Where would that fear come from?

No.

You can view the exact language of the extension LOA via the TA banner on the IPA website.

Seatwarmer,
No contractual givebacks.
The language is legally required to be viewed by the pilots. It is published. This is a TA that is very limited in nature regarding changes. All gains. Nothing written off.
Cements some OCV fences, continues healthcare with no premium increased (approx. an 8-10% annual premium increase savings meaning effective boost to increased hourly wage) which adds even more money to take home in the bank paycheck. A plan Pension gains continued on course.

UPS gains? As stated by EB, UPS gains marketing and Wall Street stability. Having multiple unions in contentious negotiations simultaneously (and using same teams of core negotiators at each union) complicates UPS ability to prove to market "all is well, ship with us".
FedEx and other great competitors marketing folks use that against UPS. ( As UPS does against competitors in like circumstances)
Labor unrest does gain customers for competitors,
Labor unrest does affect stock price negatively
Labor peace is great advertising to large and small customers..



IPA giveback? Nothing contractual. IPA TA gives UPS marketing teams ability to hold and grow business and Wall Street stability. How long? The two years during a time (unpredictable in 2016 how Teamsters timeline would fall in the future with pinpoint accuracy) for multiple high stakes negotiations. RLA effectively puts IPA second to Teamsters national NLRA rules, ours is amendable, Teamsters expires. Government and RLA intent is keep business moving, naturally NMB isn't going to impede NLRA negotiations between UPS and Teamsters.
UPS deems IPA labor stability during this time worth the investment in the TA. UPS doesn't want to pay, but demonstrates IPA effectiveness (proven multiple times) to gain the attention with UPS shareholders and customers. (Not desired by UPS, but reality they recognize) so willing to pay.

And maybe also some staffing benefit from delaying some early retirements. How many pilots are now talking about staying 2 more years? A lot (not all) of the gains are for captains retirement pension. Maybe UPS was looking at how many guys/gals are retiring early and wanted to slow it down for a year or two.

I've heard that floated around quite a bit, but I'm not buying it. Look at how many guys retired early the last few years knowing a retirement bump was less than a year away. A lot just 6 months away. Now a crushed economy? That will slow retirements...

This is probably a large part of their rational for the extension. Continue to operate at min staffing levels, kick the can down the road a few more years with band-aids to the operation. Problem is, even with the monetary incentives, we will still have the same number of pilots that are simply "one bad duty day" away from an early retirement. That hasn't changed, they are hoping the $$$ is enough to keep retirements closer to mandatory numbers. It probably will work as they hope, $$$ tends to solve a lot of problems around here.

Its still a no-brainer to vote YES on the TA extension. IPA members have nothing to lose on this one.

My personal opinion is that the retirement increase will not keep guys who already planned to leave early from doing so. The increase would have needed to be on the order of $200/year increase to the multiplier for captains. The agreement enables the company to trumpet labor peace to Wall Street and to focus hard on the Teamsters who may be a more difficult this next round due to the dissatisfaction many in their ranks felt over their last contract. All that said, we would be foolish not to give this a resounding yes vote. Especially with the world economy looking squishy.

Maybe the retirement improvement won’t BUT the stock market drop will. A couple of days ago talked to 2 former crashpad roommates who’re both planning on retiring early next year (@~61 and ~63 respectively). Well, not anymore. ...they’ve both decided to hang on a while longer waiting for the markets to recover. I think many others will do the same..

IMO, they weren’t retiring anyway. If they had gone to any of the retirement shows put on by the union or had any common sense, they wouldn’t have been that exposed to the recent drop. You don’t leave that much in the stock market when you are close to retiring.

If the market persists in a downward trend you might be right. If it bounces back within a few months, maybe not. A lot also depends how well each individual understands and trusts their retirement plans. Those who understand that their plan is built to deal with market gyrations probably will pursue retirement as planned. Those who don’t trust their plan will cling to their seniority numbers to the bitter end. I don’t think the stock market or corona virus will make a big difference in retirement numbers. Our senior guys generally have done well in their DC and have a DB to backstop the DC.

Red Zone is 5 years to pulling retirement. IF this caught them they were not ready. Will likely pull less than 18 checks in retirement. Suggest the 20 year annuity A plan.

Moose,

I don’t disagree, but you know that there is a big difference between intellectually knowing you have a sound retirement plan and living it through a rough spot. Choice of ways to take your DB is personal and highly dependent on many factors.

That was a tongue in cheek way of saying I assume their estates will need UPS annuity income long after they are gone..

This TA looks like an even better deal now. I couldn’t imagine any sane person voting no for this.

we must be the only airline in the world that has a raise proposal on the table. i cant see anything less than a 100% YES vote at this point.