PIC Requirement?
 

I have a friend that has a lot of heavy SIC international experience but no PIC. He says he doesn’t meet mins for you guys. Is that true? Have they hired anyone without the PIC time if they’ve got lots of international heavy jet time?

1k, otherwise the system will boot you out.

Thank you.

Any chance of that changing? I’m ex Ryanair, Cathay, now BA, 737, A330, A340, 777 time. 10k hours.

Not right now, a buddy of mine flew the A380 at QR and can't get an interview....he is going to Delta.

Delta is hiring anybody with a pulse

Many thanks mate

And your background is a perfect example of how maddening our hiring process is. We would be lucky to have someone of your quals and experience. For now, they aren’t changing the 1000 tpic though.

Not sure why you say it’s maddening. It’s been that way post 9/11.

That’s over 20 years to know what you need.

Guys probably feel it’s maddening because it forces you to choose between going to a legacy with no PIC or hanging out at a regional, ACMI, foreign carrier, etc until you have the 1,000PIC to apply at UPS. While I think it’s a great job, I would never advise someone to pass on a legacy in order to build the 1,000 PIC to be eligible to apply here. Even at our current hiring pace, your odds of getting called for an interview here are mediocre at best. This is a great landing spot for someone who has broad experience in aviation in left and right seats. It’s not necessarily a realistic landing spot for a young guy who is racing to get a great job before the music stops on this hiring wave.

Who would you rather have as a new hire FO? F-16 pilot with 2000 hour total but nearly all tpic or the original poster with intl experience and 10k hours?

Which one is vaccinated?

that made me laugh! Can we just agree UPS misses out on some great applicants? I like the 1000 tpic requirement because it is a good filter for hiring great experience. I just wonder in this environment if it will ever change.

I’ll answer with a question. UPS is looking for professionals with proven command and direct leadership experience. Who do you think they will pick? A retired F16 flight lead with formal mentorship and leadership training or someone who has played second fiddle in the civilian sandbox for a decade? Bear in mind an FO at Qatar or Etihad is not particularly encouraged to take an assertive leadership position in the presence of the Captain.

Realistically, it's always been that way. There were many hired at TWA/United in the 90s without PIC who were stuck after 9/11.

I know who I would pick. I also like the TPIC requirement. However, that doesn’t mean that I’m unsympathetic to the example presented. Hopefully we won’t need to drop the 1,000 TPIC requirement. HR also needs to apply a more jaundiced eye to applicants coming from carriers that don’t participate with PRIA. They can game the system and there is little that will give it away now that the sim portion of the interview is gone.

…..to play second fiddle for 6-7 years.

Didn’t realise my post would cause quite the fervour! I’m sure an F16 squadron leader/Topgun Maverick would be a good candidate at UPS, however, despite not having the command time; I’d like to think the BA and Cathay training would stand me in good stead also. Indeed, I hear through the grapevine that UPS are very happy with their Cathay applicants….
Just a quick one tnkrdrvr, all due respect but on the PRIA issue, no one ever accused Cathay, BA or even Ryanair of having low standards and no need to game any system!

That wasn’t aimed at you. Cathay, Emirates, and several other international carriers train to a very high standard and UPS HR has little to complain about those applicants. However, there are a far larger number of carriers overseas that do not train to high standards and are very opaque when it comes to training records and even flying hours. There have been a number of pilots hired here with impressive sounding resumes who struggled with basic airmanship, let alone leadership. The company is hiring future captains, so it is reasonable for them to desire proof you can do that job. Obviously, if they receive too few applicants that may change. I have no idea why your career has worked out the way it has. You have shown a high degree of ability at the carriers you flew with. Unfortunately, you haven’t met one of the basic prerequisites for the job at UPS. Every legacy carrier would likely snap you up, so it’s not like you are consigned to flying overseas forever.

Yes I fully understand the UPS tpic requirement and agree it’s there for a good reason.

I totally get how Covid ruined Cathay. BA (I’m assuming that’s British Airways) is one of the grand old names in aviation, although they did lose my luggage for a week :mad:. If coming back to the states is your goal, UPS is a great landing spot, but probably not currently realistic for you. FedEx may have dropped their PIC required and all the pax guys have. If international long haul is what floats your boat FedEx is a great option. Otherwise, I’d enjoy working at the place you always wanted to be. UPS is a great job, but it’s just a job with brown pants and a hideous tie.

FedEx 500 TPIC required!


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I'd like to second that my comment wasn't aimed at you. Having experienced some of BA's training facilities myself I can confirm your sentiment. However, UPS is in the position of not needing to bother looking for additional parameters to widen their catchment area. Unfortunately, that means that certain quality applicants like yourself won't be teased out of the system until necessary. Check that pic box and you would be very competitive.

Are you seeing ppl leaving legacy carriers for UPS? I know FedEx has a few in each class.

Yes on average 6-7 per class. United, Alaska, and Delta were represented in the last class.

yes, legacy pilots are coming here.

I bet a few are leaving for the legacies as well.

If you want to be an influencer, the legacies are definitely the place to be

🤌 Por qué?

I would imagine the usual reasons. They live in base or want to, or they really like hats.

Hello, may I ask why you want to leave BA to come to the US to work?
I work in the US but I am in the process of getting my EASA to come back to Europe.

How many years did these pilots spend at their legacy before they left for UPS? Have you heard of anyone leaving after 5+ years at their legacy?

3 year Delta
6 year Delta
14 year? Southwest
2 year UnitedThat's all I know of.
Hella.

Alot of what we do is night flying and it can be really awful to push yourself through a three legger starting at 10pm and finishing at 6am.

Sometimes I miss walking through the terminal, getting my Cuban coffe, do a Barranquilla turn and be don in the afternoon. I can easily understand why some would chose to go legacy. Yet I’m here.

MOST of what we do is not night sort flying. With a single pay scale it’s likely there is a niche for everyone.

The night sort flying is just one aspect. On the international side the problem becomes body clock flip flops and 24h layovers which many outsiders don’t realize is rough. I think on balance our flying is quite a bit more challenging sleep wise than the legacy type flying. For some that means a qol improvements at the passenger carriers.

I agree, 24 hour overnights are the worst.

B reserve on the domestic side is pretty nice. I haven't seen a hotel room or 2 AM since July. Don't commute.

I can't speak for UPS, but FedEx has hired numerous dudes in the last 30 years that have done 5+ years at legacies.

From the anecdotes I’m familiar with, most leave within the first few years. However, we have seen 6 year FOs from United and a 7 year Capt from Delta. Covid definitely spurred some of this. For the most part, the guys who do this we’re always targeting UPS and simply took the first great job offer at a legacy while they waited for UPS to call. I’m sure we have some guys doing the same thing in the other direction. Although, once UPS hooks you on the high pay, narrow body can be a tough pill to swallow.