When I try to put in "type of violation" as "speeding" it says invalid. Anyone else have this issue?

Is the application up already? I’m in the pool got the email on 12/10 for congratulations and standby on 2023 class dates. I know they don’t have any confirmed classes past January, but historically how long before class dates do invites go out?

I’m currently finishing my first year at United and patiently waiting the invite from UPS. Has anyone made the jump recently from a Legacy and care to share their take? UPS is my hometown airline and was my number one choice. Currently living in FL commuting out of MCO- EWR, with plans to eventually move to SDF should I get on with UPS.

Thanks for the insight and look forward to 2023!

Didn't United just announce an MCO domicile?

Yea it’s 737 only and opens in May. UPS would get me back to my home town.

Have you been Home recently? I'm also a native, and I moved back to SDF a few years back with stars in my eyes about going Home. It's not the place I grew up. "You can never go Home again" and all that.

Not trying to warn you off...It's also not the war-zone the people who really hate it make it out to be. It's an ok Mid-Southern/Mid-Western city, probably not too different from a lot of others, and you can certainly make a fine life here. But Maybury it ain't, anymore. Seems like nowhere is.

My 2023 app has been available since 12/22 but instructions from HR were to not update till after 1/1. The 2023 application has a Driver and Mechanic supplement but I'm having issues with that section.

Thanks. I will get on it. I haven’t bothered to login until after today. I’ll complete it soon and report any issues I come across.

As for SDF. I grew up west of Louisville and have a farm there so eventually moving back and building a house always apealed to me. Mayberry is a stretch from my one stoplight town I grew up in. But I agree Louisville and the surrounding areas have gotten worse than when I lived in KY. I would still be within 1:30, but out in the sticks.

It seems as though the supplement was added to the new app by mistake. The questions and drop-down selections have no relevance for normal class D license holders.

If moving to SDF is your top reason, then do it. Otherwise stay at United!! Your seniority progression is going to be 10 times better, a lot more variety of flying, very little backside of the clock, flying, and a new CBA coming most likely in 2023. UPS is simply a very pilot unfriendly company. Our growth is done and our retirements are puny compared to the Legacies.

Generally agree but I’ll be more precise:

A. Seniority progression will be slightly better at UAL.
1. Our retirements, in terms of percentage's, are on par with DAL and UAL; our wave is just about to start in earnest.
2. Our growth is plateauing. It sure if UAL is growing or replacing / maintains status quo.

B. Flying variety - big advantage UAL, very true.

B2. Easy AF commute to EWR as well.

C. Backside flying - @ual there’s red eyes, early departures and late arrivals (eg. landing at 00-01am on west coast is 3-4am on east coast), international is international. It’s way better than 5X but not a banker’s hours paradise. UPS has some good day flying too, just gotta be senior enough to hold it.

If you can get on soon and have no reason or hard-on to upgrade quickly, you could eventually camp out senior in seat, living in domicile, making good coin, and living a good life (think flying with training captain and getting displaced a lot, or sitting reserve and not getting called, milking the conflict game, etc). You’ll never have that good of a deal commuting to anywhere.

Also to consider, UPS is supposed to make an announcement sometime this quarter regarding their 2023 hiring plans and their MD solution. That will probably give some insight to their short term airline strategy which will help in your decision making process.

I have no special insight on that transition. However, there has been a steady trickle from United, Delta, AA, etc in our new hire classes. Hopefully, someone will home in. For your scenario (with the farm), it would probably be a good deal.

On the new app under the drivers section, I am unable to save any portion of the “driving convictions” section. I have 2-3 speeding tickets, nothing crazy, but when I attempt to add an incident the app won’t allow it to save. The only way to continue was selecting “no convictions.” I’m not attempting to hide anything, and after trying many solutions I’m convinced this is a software issue. Any ideas?

Boy are they going to regret it.

Are you saying I’d regret coming to UPS from a major? Why?

Quoted wrong post….deleted

I’m having the same issue. Sounds like that section was a mistake with the 2023 app. Maybe it will go away eventually. I shot off an email to my HR contact and [email protected].

That is exactly what I am saying. The culture shock for once, how management interacts with the pilots. Everything is a constant battle. And then our schedules plain down suck. Not saying they don’t suck at other places as well, but at least they suck while flying mostly during normal hours. Coming here now and being junior for a while will mean flying graveyard shift and crappy schedules, lots of reports, lots of circadian shifts. Once you get some seniority, our day flying is not that great either. You will fly 3 out of the 4 weeks in the bid period, with lots of starts at 2-3pm and end around 12-1am, rinse and repeat for the week, almost never more than a 12-13 layover.

Trading trips? Pffff, forget about it, insufficient reserve coverage. And now it’s even worse as we are seeing very little open time to even trade with (flight volume down and/or lots of people gobbling it up). You ask the average UPS pilot, not the one who somehow always “gets lucky”, what their trade success rate is and I bet it is 25% or less.

For the ones on property with some seniority it sucks a little bit less, but the boom we have seen the last 5-6 years is gone for now.

Our facilities/gateways are plain disgusting and completely worn down, the bathrooms make you want to puke. Sleep rooms actually good in general. It takes a full blown flood in our main operations center to start considering a remodel of a crew ready area that is old and outdated.

We work middle of the night, and we barely even get basic coffee served just in SDF and PHL. Forget about a decent coffee machine (or any machine for that matter) at any other gateway.

Just to name a few items.

Im sure the list of gripes are just as long as every airline. Find a couple recent new hires that have made the plunge to get a true picture that is relevant to your situation.

"You will dry your tears with Benjamins". That's pretty much the deal, could we leave it at that?

that’s what I’d heard… deal accepted!

I figured the error out. Violation and conviction date cannot be the same day. If they are different, the system takes it.

My speeding tickets are no longer on my record, so I'm unable to locate the required information. I'm at a loss...

If anyone has any concerns about certain issues, running a background check on yourself is very easy. Driving record from state, NCIS from FBI, FAA records, all relatively easy to get.

Interesting. Thanks. I'll have to guess on most dates since I just pay my fines and don't go to court.

I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss C2078, excellent description of working at brown. Also not sure if you come out ahead financially. Not sure what legacy you’re at but Deltas AIP pretty much guarantees you will have higher rates than us for several years. Plus you need to factor in the upgrade time which could easily be 9 yrs or more. I

Hammer, to your point, the pension is extremely valuable and a game changer, but, as you mention, upgrade time has to factor into the equation, especially now that DL NB Captain rate (the realistic opportunity) will approach our Captain single rate, which will take years longer to achieve. There is no clear cut answer. Some may choose to factor in job stability (furlough chances), bases, scheduling practices, etc. There is one thing that is for certain.. If the DL agreement is ratified, it removes many of the perceived advantages of the UPS (or Fedex) job. Whoever tries to keep defending the UPS (or Fedex) job unilaterally and blindly, is simply fooling himself and not objective.

One thing is pretty clear. Pay rates alone do not provide the full picture. The DL top rate will be about 15% higher than UPS when it’s all said and done, however, only a small minority of pilots will be able to enjoy those rates vs UPS single pay scale which encompasses every Captain.

Our health care and vacation still blows theirs out of the water. And, their top rates will exceed ours only for a relatively brief period of time looking at it from the bigger picture, unless FX diks it up…

Not saying you’re wrong but I’d like to see the math on 9 year upgrades at 5X in the near future.

Growth is over for the forseeable future. The guy in question isn’t in class yet so he will be roughly 3500 on the seniority list best case. Retirements through 2033 total 1449. So he is at least 100 short at ten years.

Early retirements will shorten that time by how much is the question.

Same, I just put them one day later.

If you’re hired today at Delta it will be about 25-30 years to get WB captain pay. I would say 10 years to WB Capt pay is awfully good.

Plus, no amount of money can put a value on not having to deal with passengers over a 30 year career. Cargo is the most mission oriented flying I’ve ever done. A to B with the normal maintenance and weather stuff. No crowded terminals, no bad attitude flight attendants or gate agents, no drunk people, no being a professional apologizer for the millions of things you have no control over. That’s just one aspect of course, but one that a lot of folks at UPS and FedEx appreciate I’m sure.

As will the number of by-passers. You’re also not factoring in guys medicaling out, getting fired, ie non retirement attrition, more potential jobs we will take from FQSs next contract, and so on. IMHO, your numbers on the higher end of the estimate but agree the 4-5 year upgrades are probably something we won’t see again for a while.

On downside to day flying....you get to see how filthy and worn the cockpits are - I don't think they are ever cleaned - the aircraft bathrooms are cleaned though. It is pretty surprising how unclean the facilities are in general - I guess that is because there is zero chance the customer will ever see them? It is unfortunate that employees are not viewed as the customer :/

Our trip trading system is beyond broken. The automated system wasn't programed to handle the type of trade I wanted to make on a Friday afternoon (I guess they are still working on it since the 2016 Contract) so I had to do a manual trip trade request. On Monday morning I was informed the trip I wanted to trade was no longer available. Even though the staff is available to process these manual trades over the weekend - they are instructed not to by management. Frustrating.

great discussion, thank you for the perspectives. I unintentionally came off flippantly, but I appreciate all comments.

What is a realistic timeline for a UPS new hire to be assigned MIA?

HR deleted my Driver and Mechanic Supplement.

Hard to say with any certainty, but based on the last System Bid, I would think you could hold it by the second bid after you were hired. Possibly the first. At worst, the third. So, like, 12-18 months, or 18-24 months, or maaaaaaybe 24-36 months, worst case scenario in all cases. I stand subject to correction by the Domestic guys, I'm not 100% up on how that stuff works, but that's my back-of-napkin math.

Awesome!

That answers a lot of questions. Did you reach out to someone specific, or just [email protected]? My application still has the supplement.

If you are assigned 75/76 SDF, Z or ONT, you will be able to hold MIA on your first system bid. Now, you will be junior for a long time.

I emailed flight [email protected] and the HR rep that scheduled my interview. Both responded within a day or so.

Thanks for all the information. I completed the new app, and back to the waiting game.