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- UPS (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ups/)

- - New hires (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ups/152493-new-hires.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTv3 (Post 4013953)

Any regional pilot would roll their eyes at this. As would guys and gals from ACMI, ME, Asian contracts etc.
Now the legacies, probably not. But they are a contract ahead and facing some stiff economic/ geopolitical headwinds that express logistics has typically weathered better in the past.

“This bad:” Personally, I’m not getting hit with payroll errors, denied premiums, or much other bs guys are reporting. I’ve gotten revised more than normal but usually it ends up being less work albeit at the cost of preferred layovers, a beneficial CML, or shorter (min rest) layovers. It is what it is - I show up, do my week on-off trips, take my extensive vacations (some courtesy of conflict bidding) and otherwise forget this place on my days off. So for me it’s at the annoying stage, well, more annoying than usual phase. I try to remember this is temporary due to contract negotiations. If it isn’t, I’ll deal with that once it actually materializes vs ASSUMING the future is all doom and gloom. Not selling this place, just giving my honest review. For reference: I’m domestic around 50% on my fleet. The pros of Intl comes with special bs to deal with which is currently amplified and I’d probably be beyond the annoyed phase if I was over there.

MD-11 intl flying in bid pack: For outsiders looking in seeking context, what’s going on is ups playing games to avoid paying contractual extra $$ and guys are getting pi$$ed off because of it. These ‘games’ are blatant contract violations. MD peeps are getting paid and not turning a wheel for 6 months to a year so it’s not like they are getting screwed; However, a small # of Z guys (76 intl) are - from lost opportunities/ good deals that were supposed to be there under the contract. Basically, it’s just 1 more example in an already long list demonstrating the ‘de facto unenforceability’ of our contract due to UPS’s habitual non compliance and the almost complete lack of accountability they enjoy. Bottom line, we are supposed to be getting more good deals/$$ out of this MD fiasco - company is violating the contract to avoid that. Anyway, good (simplified) behind the scenes examlle for those researching.

I will take issue with the idea of only a few senior Z guys getting screwed by the company’s noncontractual games with MD flying. Every senior Z guy who can no longer bid their preferred line because the company gave it to a mythical MD line is now taking a more junior guy’s line and the dominoes fall from there. I am around 90% on a domestic fleet and have had premiums for line changes and layover changes denied. You may have been lucky so far, but the pilot group is absolutely getting screwed.

Our point of comparison is absolutely the legacies. I, and many of my peers, had our choice of employers and will not settle for “but UPS IS DIFFERENT”. We signed off on two extensions of “interesting” merit. As far as I’m concerned we should force the company to beg (bribe) Congress to force a contract on us before we roll over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr (Post 4014153)

So with the MD lines …how are those trips being covered…thru open time….or are there duplicates in the Z bid pack?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaggy (Post 4014234)

So with the MD lines …how are those trips being covered…thru open time….or are there duplicates in the Z bid pack?

Pretty sure it’s the outsourced 76 European flying so UPS could bring a couple 76s back to the domestic network. That flying should be handled under displacement rules and bidding for 76 Z peeps

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaggy (Post 4014234)

So with the MD lines …how are those trips being covered…thru open time….or are there duplicates in the Z bid pack?

Saw a MAERSK painted 767 flying out of CGN with a UPS call sign.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellafo (Post 4014275)

Saw a MAERSK painted 767 flying out of CGN with a UPS call sign.....

Lots of em..been that way for years

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr (Post 4014153)

FTv3 lives in his little mini bubble where he may be one of a fortunate few that has not been affected much by the UPS behavior. Good for him. But that is not the reality of the vast majority of his UPS colleagues. Even worse making generalizations that everything is not that bad, when morale is probably at an all time low.

We have a QOL problem. Will it be fixed in the next contract? Who knows, but people in general are tired of getting kicked in the nads. The senior folks have very little places to hide from the crappy schedules, the middle makes lemonade from prunes, and the bottom hopes things get better eventually. Was it January that attrition from the bottom leaving outpaced retirements? Hasn’t happened in recent years from what I remember. Couple that with things that are constantly a fight that shouldn’t be and now the masses are burnt out.

As long as other places keep running classes we’ll probably see more people leave with the displacements. Folks who don’t want to commute to reserve in ONT or commute up to ANC and be away from their families weeks on end.

Outsiders probably see us complaining and think “what’s the problem” or “you know you signed up for night flying”. Night flying is the least of our complaints around here. You can research until your eyes are bloodshot red but actually being here is a totally different thing. It’s not all bad but the fact that people are voting with their feet after being told constantly during Indoc that they have the “golden ticket” is telling.

Meanwhile, the QOL problem evidently isn't bad enough for some to prioritize their days off and earned vacation over additional earnings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 4014320)

Meanwhile, the QOL problem evidently isn't bad enough for some to prioritize their days off and earned vacation over additional earnings.

Or some clown “leaning forward” to help the company by taking a JA then having his pay screwed up. Some lessons are learned the hard way. Then complain about it on the B&G.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 4014320)

Meanwhile, the QOL problem evidently isn't bad enough for some to prioritize their days off and earned vacation over additional earnings.

I can’t tell anyone what to do with their time or money. At every airline/Air Line there’s the crowd that’s only worried about money every month just like there’s the crowd that tries to work as little as possible. Our average new hire age probably doesn’t help either when it comes to people trying to maximize their earnings.