UPS Typical Schedule
 

Was hoping to get a QOL question answered.
What is a typical monthly bid line for UPS pilots?
How many days away?
Are your line commutable?
What percentage of your flying is night?
Any further resources available on the web regarding QOL?

Thanks in advance.

Try using the Google search feature located on the upper left side of the page. These questions have been addressed many times before.

Here's a start....

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0034768..._CSE&sa=Search

Refine as necessary.

That worked pretty well. Thanks.

Newbie for sure

Dogbreath has good advice. I just click the "search" function on the toolbar and it does an APC search.
Here is one on ANC Schedule from last Sept through February or 2008:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=16615

1 and 2. We bid for a Bid Period (BP) that includes two Pay Periods (PP) of 28 days each. [One exception is a single 35 day BP around Thanksgiving]
Looks like this:
Currently in Bid Period 4 (BP 08-04) includes PAY PERIOD 6 (18 MAY-14 JUNE)
and PAY PERIOD 7 (15 JUNE-12 JULY).
We all bid and had our schedules by 30 April-01 May.
We are guaranteed to have 13 days off in 28 if on RSV. IMO, most Lines between 12-14 on. Some less, some more.
The actual schedule changes as UPS changes markets, but generally, it is defined by Fleet and Domicile. i.e. domestic/international.

Lots of week on/week off domestic and international. Also lot of 4 on-3 off.
We have day trips both AM/PM.
Reserve varies by fleet. Intl has many 15 day on in a row/13 off in a row.
Domestic typically week on/week off and 4 on/3 off.
3. Answers vary, Depends on lots of factors. Some willing to endure great sacrifice and will say Yes, others will say No. Generally, Yes. Except ANC domicile has the most "No's, not commutable" but know many who do. Quality of Life hit hard for those that do though.
4. Domestically, the majority. Maybe 75% night, 25% day. Realize that the night stuff may have you taking off at sunset in summers, landing at sunrise. Day stuff may have you taking off late afternoon, landing in the dark, or, Taking off early in am darkeness, landing late morning.
International is International.
5. QOL is best in domicile like everyone else. Seniority drives QOL like everyone else. Overall, MO, our QOL is OK to Great the majority of the time considering the business we are in. Ultimately, the beauty is that you can choose what type you want. Domestic/Intl, commute/domicile etc.

Great followup SaltyDog. Thanks for the info. Any projections on the next hiring window? (last question :) )

Unfortunately, No. Business environment is very fluid. IMO, UPS responds in a generally reactive way regarding pilot hiring. Factually: Pilot HR office shutdown. 800-241-2357 is pilot hiring hotline. www.upsjobs.com, when listed would be "Flight Officer"

Not much to choose from these days if you were hired prior to 2000! I haven't had a choice here yet except for avoiding the panel so far.;)

Well, I know, but I had a choice to bypass Capt or be a senior F/O on any fleet. (96 hire) flying lines of pretty much my choice. I did panel (lead flight attendant) for 2 years before able to upgrade. I chose CPT and RSV :D but an added benefit is I don't need to bid anymore, unless I want to choose between the last 2 RSVA lines. :p

Did I miss something, are they hiring? :confused:

Not yet, but if we do I hope you can get your foot in the door. Good luck out there!

thanks, I was just telling another guy how I hope that MD11 type rating might come in handy for something after all.

I had a pretty weird schedule this bid period but I needed some specific time off. 2 days off and then a 12 day intra europe trip. Easy flying, nice three day layover in Cologne, but a long time away for me. The good news, the next 13 days off ;)

Coming up is a 4 on over to Europe and back, then 8 off. Nine on with two crossings to Europe and another three day weekend in Germany (can you say wine cruise?), and then 8 off.

Looks like 25 days on out of a 56 day bid period. About 5 hours of overtime. Come to work three times. Some of the trips begin with positioning airline tickets.

BUT ... being hired in the very early 90's SHOULD have its benefits !!!

;)

:eek:


:D

Know what you are saying. FO was hired mid 90's. Just an example of what is out there. Someday you'll get a permanent domicile and a line :D

I'm hoping for 1 out of 2 in 2008 !

:D

Face it - you are going to be on reserve so look at that first.

Domestic - 15 in a 28 day pay period, usually 7 or 8 on in a row with the balance of the next week off. May be in blocks of 4 or 5 depending on the fleet. A300 has many lines with all 15 in one block but they do international too.

International - Usually the whole thing in one block, 15 on in one block then 13 off in one block. I am not sure if they have any shorter blocks in those fleets.

I am a domestic guy so someone please correct me if I get any of this wrong.

Seniority on reserve at UPS doesn't matter for much. Bidding your on-call period at the time of schedule bid (which remains the same for the 56 day bid) and preferencing open trips the day prior is about all you get for your seniority (and the dates off too.) Once the period starts the order of calling is determined by the number of hours you have been on duty that bid period (taking into account your days of availability and stuff like if you are running out of landing currency.)

You get the same 75 hour/28 day guarantee as a line holder.

Right now the DC-8 seems pretty tame. DC-8 folks are flying less than half their days on (at least that's me). Other fleets might be working most of their days on (A-300 has in the past.)

We get a fair amount of days off on reserve compared to some other airlines. I know AA has 19 on in a month. Many commuters (excuse me - Regionals) have 20 in a month. At least you can commute to reserve while you are stuck on it here and still have a life.

I hope that helps. Best of luck!!

gremlin

I've flown 44 hours this year on reserve at UPS. I wouldn't knock it.

Aren't they shrinking ONT because of that?

We lost 7 Capts. I don't see much change thanks to the open time being picked up.

hope your cushy lifestyle continues :)

Hope the open time vacuum stops the day they announce their intent to furlough...

It always has

Just curious. But when you have the long layover like that, do you have to be contactable by the company at all?

Not too long ago when I was in Osaka or maybe Incheon I found a message under my door to call crew scheduling... There was also a 'message light' on my phone... Being the junior guy that I was/am - I called them back. I was switched from one scheduler to another and my perception was that they're all shocked I actually called them back and didn’t really know what to do with me since me calling them back was not something they planned for… Apparently that doesn't happen very often, especially on long layovers... ;)

Later when I mentioned this to some more senior guys they seemed to be just as shocked that I actually called crew scheduling from my layover - so maybe that answers your question... :D

IF that were ever to happen under this current contract, the IPA can call for an immediate and LEGAL open time BAN.

How is the IPA able to do this where at other places it can be considered an "illegal job action"?

It is in our contract:

13. K. 9. It shall be a violation of this Agreement if the Association engages in any action
to encourage or suggest to its members that they not pick up open time or
decline junior available assignments. This language shall not be applicable
during a time of furlough or furlough announcement. Further, it shall be a
violation of this Agreement if any crewmember(s) takes any action, individually or
collectively, to discourage or interfere with other crewmembers who desire to pick
up open time or accept junior available assignments. Nothing in the preceding
sentence shall limit an individual crewmember’s ability to voice personal
opinions.

It is in our contract.

I see, interesting, thanks. So, maybe other airlines may not have had the same provision in their contract. But haven't there been cases where MEC's tried to say no picking up of open time and been faced with "illegal job action" charges?

What I'm getting at is, just because it's not in a contract, how can MEC's get in trouble for it?

We in the right seat saw some changes....

This is a confusing area. It is never illegal, nor considered a job action to not pick up open time UNLESS the union starts this activity once in collective bargaining negotiations or at the end of the amendment period ("end" of contract which doesn't end).

What is uniue to the IPA contract, some in the IPA were concerned of what a court may do if you did an OT ban OUTSIDE negotiations even though not illegal. (Difference of opinion) So the IPA negotiated a legal activity into our contract to move the company to an arbitrator rather than a court for a dispute that is legal in the courts. The IPA agreed to become MORE restrictive than the law. We can now ONLY do an OT ban during furlough announcement, and IMO, outside of negotiations since it is still illegal to do a job action during negotiations.

No contract can include illegal activity or violate federal statutes because the
two parties agree.
Example:
We can't agree to fly 9 hours daily domestically because we would agree to preagreed override. Nope, against FAR's which are federal statutes and limited to 8. The agreement to going to 9 hours does not make it legal.

So we have something already legal in our contract. Any airline, not in negotiations, can do what the IPA wrote in a contract. IMO, the only real value: UPS knows we will do the ban, no guesswork. Still IMO, just means UPS now knows to boost the flight supervisor hiring (airline in airline) before furlough announcement.

Disclaimer: Not an atty. Just basics anyone can get from any lawyer.

No requirement at all, even if you are a reserve. Also, there are certain windows where they are not allowed to call you

In answer to the original question...
 

From what I've seen, YMMV, about 60% of the lines are week on/week off or 2 weeks on/2 weeks off, with city purity at least some of the time. 20% are lines that work 5 + weeks of 8, some reporting every week for shorter trips or turns, and 20% are reserves.

Certain fleets, the ones nearing the end of their useful life, or brand new fleets are great if you live in base and would rather play with mama/poppa/the kids, than fly. Sub 100 hour years are not uncommon on those fleets. That is how it was on the 727 in it's final years, has been on the 747 Classic and now more and more on the DC-8. It has been that way in MIA and is that way in ONT now. I spent 18 months on the 727 and flew about 175 hours, it would have been closer to 125 except I had to chase hours to consolidate, or live in the sim doing checkrides to extend the consolidation period.

Over time, planning is getting better at maximizing what the contract gives them, utilizing the new fleets, and creating some interesting pairings at the Bases. It's not uncommon to run into any fleet at any sort, that originates or terminates there.

Newhires should expect a long wait for wk on/wk off unless they can make the Base Trip Lines (60-80th percentile lines) work for them, or are wizards at line improvement. Or move to your domicile and work on your golf game. :rolleyes:

hth

When/if we have new hires ... be cautious with this advice. I moved to SDF from PHX for the job early last year. In July I will be based in ONT. And when the next realignment/displacement/vacancy closes, I will most likely be moved again to ANC or take a downgrade to the panel in SDF to stay in the lower 48.

TRUST ME, considering where I have been ... I am NOT complaining. But the view from the bottom can be slightly different than you will read here or elsewhere ... ;)

Trust but verify ! :D

Later,

Brown CC

:cool:

Without a doubt instability at the bottom makes the "Move to Domicile" strategy dicey. For many years I've been one of those who would rather live where they play vs live where the work, so admittedly the "revolving domiciles" policy of Brown lately wouldn't affect me much. The tough choice if you are a commuter is what to bid when you fall into that 60-80th percentile? More commutes with a few more days off on BTL's or reserve with less commutes and less days off. ANC and Over 60 has created a lot of instability at the bottom. :confused:

Well I think you're pretty much stuck where you are right now unless you're close to the bottom.

When they finally start hiring again do you guys think it will be a stipulation of employment for "new hires" to move and relocate to ANC. I was wondering if that was the reason they are giving that overide pay to new hires who do so for 3 years. Thanks.

There is no stipulation and that is why they try and make it more appetizing. I don't think that the IPA would ever allow one.

On any layover, we are under no obligation to be "on the hook." We even have "no contact Periods," depending on the length of your scheduled layover where the company can only slip a note under your door and turn on a message light.

Many UPS pilots routinely go off on little jaunts when on layovers. Internationally, I've travelled all around western Europe while on 60-73+ hour layovers. Lately, I've been planning a jaunt to Berlin later in July.
I just did a 74 hour layover in HNL last October. Flew the wife over on American and we holed up at a nice resort for the duration.:)

For CY 08, I've logged a whopping 40.6 hours flight time on reserve (mostly A reserve). Living in domicile (or within reserve call out time) is a pretty good way to go. If you want "home" time, there is nothing better. I think the longest time I've spent away from home this year is one night.

The gravy train may be over for me come this next displacement bid. Chances are I'll be Alaska bound on the -400.