You're saying that we as a union would possess the same leverage if the NMB walked out on our negotiations, as we did before when there was a threat of self-help available to us? Is that what you're saying? What labor trouble could we cause to bring UPS and the NMB back to the table? Please be specific.

You're delusional. The only real leverage we have as a union is the threat of self-help. If the NMB took that away from us (and that's exactly what they said they would do), we would have exactly squat for leverage. It's really just that simple. What incentive would the company have to negotiate with us? None. The status quo remains in effect.

Do you really want to play "chicken" with the Chairman of the NMB, and call his "bluff?" Thank God you're not leading this union.

Archie Bunker,

The only real leverage we have, or any pilot group has, is unity. Not strike. Because particularly at UPS who has bought and paid Washington at all levels, the NMB would have never released us.

I believe the NMB (I wasn't there), did go to the company and say it's time to start negotiating. And within weeks it was done. And once UPS upped their pay etc....the NMB was satisfied they had done their job. We are not welcome back.

Unity is the only tool. If nothing else the company knew that if they didn't get the NC and EB to 100% endorse this contract we would vote it down.

Personally, as "unified" as we are, we aren't when push comes to shove. Vest/lanyard pretty much demonstrated that. Luckily, UPS did believe that if they didn't get the 100% endorsement, the membership would have voted it down. UPS did believe we were that unified.

Real unity shows itself at the negotiations table. Unity is the only tool any pilot group truly has. Getting released is pie in the sky thinking. But you get your adversary at the negotiations table to think that the membership totally believable in the NC/EB, and it gives them the highest in tools of negotiations.

Things might possibly have gone very different had we the membership 100% participated in something as simple as vest/lanyard campaign. 60/80% respectively on those simple items doesn't cut it. The company was watching and so was the EB. luckily, as I said, the company did at least believe that they had to present the NC/EB with a TA that they would 100% endorse. They believed in our unity at least that much at the negotiations table.

It's all about unity and it's the only tool in negotiations.

Not true, Mom had me tested and we are in agreement on the latter part of your statement.

Fly phished,
Had two jumpseat er's the other day and both of them had no idea we were suppossed to wear our vests..also both were the type that never go on the Bar & Grill either.

Vito, I don't expect ppl to go to the BG....even though everyone should. Tons of good info there.

But....no excuse for not reading the IPNN daily. Which for almost two weeks the EB said every day...wear your vest and lanyard. With a video. Particularly when UPS for the first time in history filed a grievance against the IPA because of the best and lanyard. Then it was really addressed/hammered.

I'm my opinion no excuse. Everyone has their excuses for this stuff. If ppl don't want to read or participate in the BG I get it. But daily IPNN is in my mind mandatory.

I would say the majority don't read the B&G or want or even get the IPNNNNNNN.

And as the B&G goes, I disagree with you about how everyone should go because of all the good info. It's nothing more than about 100 people having their own discussions about mostly nothing important. And if for some reason you do not agree with what is being discussed, you are immediately jumped on from all 100 people. Uhhh no thanks.

Vito,

Did they know we have been in negotiations for 5 yrs now or did that surprise them too???...LOL

It's more like 20 guys repeating themselves 100 times

Really? So your finally seeing the light?

Yes, just like the NMB telling the IPA that they will put us on ice for a year? The NMB will say anything to get an agreement. Glad your waking up from your coma. But the EB uses this to put fear into the masses. Just like a hard sell, but using the NMB instead.

100? Try about 15. The same 15 blathering over and over. And if you ask a question they don't agree with, watch out! Tar and feathered. This is why many never go there.