Sliceback

GF agreed about options. But something's that different about this airline cycle is the massive percentage of retirements. Back in the 'go-go' 1980's it was about 80-85% growth and 15-20% retirements. It's going to flip and we're looking at 15-20% growth and 80-85% retirements.

While the guys getting hired 1000, 2000, or 3000 guys into the cycle won't have the careers of the first movers they'll still be upgrading in about the same time(8-12 yrs) at DL and AA because of the retirement numbers. They'll be retiring over 800 guys a year from 2021-2024. 600+ at AA is from 2019 to 2029.

The movement will be slower for a guy hired later in the wave but it won't be as bad as difference as it's been in the past due to the large amount of retirements coming up.

galaxy flyer

Sliceback, I agree entirely which U.S. why I'd recommend, and do recommend to younger guys, taking a shot at legacies. That said, I thought there was I way but UP in 1997, see how that worked out. One thing I've learned in 40 years of aviation, there is no situation that can't be made worse.

GF

bcrosier

Touche'. The search fu is strong in this one...

If I missed the hyperbole in your statement I must apologize, but while I truly despise graffiti "artists," I wouldn't seriously entreat that homicide was a viable solution (caning on the other hand...); I did not detect that tone in your post, and again if I missed it I must indeed proffer my mea culpa.

To claim that someone is "occupying someone's else spot and should leave right now," to me is the height of foolishness. I work for Myself Amalgamated Worldwide Industries (a J. Galt Company). I provide my services to whoever I believe provides the best return for my time and efforts in both tangible and intangible assets. I obtained that position in the marketplace of free enterprise by presenting my goods and services in a manner which those who have engaged my services believed that the nexus of our joint purposes would result in a net gain for their organization. I have done this in the corporate and airline aviation sphere, and see benefits to both - which is preferable is very much a function of one's individuals priorities. If someone else wanted my spot, it was incumbent on them to present themselves more prepared for the opportunity than I did at the time; their failure to do so or my ultimate objective to aspire to a different position in no way shape or form entitles them to my position, neither does it in anyway reduce the legitimacy of my obtaining and maintaining that position.

I have never entered into any sort of training bond or contract which I did not intend to fulfill (and I have fulfilled all of them into which I have entered). That said, if an employer is truly interested in retaining employees long term, it is incumbent on that employer to provide terms and conditions (not including said training contracts or bonds) which entice employees to remain in their state of employ. The failure of the employer to do so in no way impairs the legitimacy of the employee to engage and profit from that position, nor to ultimately utilize that position to advance themselves to a position they find more advantageous; neither does it entitle someone else to that position even though said position might be their ultimate aspiration.

Hence the umbrage I take at your statement - if the poster and the employer have arrived at a position where for the time being each finds the others requirements a reasonable exchange, then it is utter foolishness to claim that the poster is "occupying someone else's spot." Otherwise, perhaps you are occupying a spot I am entitled to, and so on - it's pure entitlement nonsense which I simply cannot abide.

NoSidNoStar

But we are not talking about preparation here, we are talking about lying about someone's true intentions. Lying to very specific questions. I consider that cheating. And if someone cheated, in my point if view, he deprived someone else of the opportunity to win.
Exaggeration? May be
But that is why in the past I quit jobs, did not accept others, and busted interviews. I say what I think, because I despite falsity, even during a job interview. I see it as an interview both ways.
And if I would need to lie it just means I would not fit the culture.
Call me crazy.
At the current moment, I won't trade the poster position for mine, I don't have a direct beef with his accomplishments. Just with the principal.
And as far as everyone has his priorities...really?
Can we stop stating the obvious once and for all?
Because when we state the obvious, we are either assuming that our interlocutors are imbeciles, we are committing the sin of futility, or we are just making conveniently small talk.

fricklyfart

What's funny about these discussions is you don't hear airline pilots talk of their 3rd divorce, kids growing up with a dad gone 3 weeks out of the month. The infidelity, half you life spent in hotels. The endless time in airports commuting.

Some airlines pay, after 15 years. Meanwhile some Citation driver is getting laid every night, has hobbies, he's got a life outside of aviation, he's a captain vs some tool for his betters.

Sure some corporate jobs suck, mine never did. Now lets talk flying...just what skill sets do airline jocks have? Taking off and landing at 10k foot runways, flying the same routes, and have a book or phone or crew member telling you how to fly?

I passed on being someones student pilot my whole career. That said, not all corporate pilots are poor. Some play the market, buy homes, have a business, but the big plus? Time. We have it, the airline guys are endlessly living in hotels, looking at a horizon with no end, and away from family.

Damn right you guys need to get paid, just like soldiers in Iraq. Time you can't get back, time you won't ever see again at that age.

So I tip my coffee cup to the guys as I sit here on a Thurs morn. Enjoy it, when you retire at 60, when it's too late.

BoilerUP

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand again, more sweeping generalizations.

Also, Citation driver getting laid every night, that's frigging hilarious right there...see NowCorporate, panties drop for a piece of that straight wing!

fricklyfart

Not talking about picking up girls moron, talking about actually sleeping with the wife/gf vs being gone.

Enjoy sitting right seat, being a tool, endless hotel rooms and internet porn for the next 25 years.

biigD

Hahahaha! This guy isn't a particularly good troll - he lacks subtlety - but he's entertaining at least!

cgtpilot

On an average month I fly 3 three day trips. I Have never cheated on my wife. All I have to do is show up and the jet is there fueled, flight plan filed, and bags and catering loaded. I fly every other leg. I never have to do "busy work" at the hanger. 130k a year at a major in the right seat. Why would I give that up to fly a straight wing Citation again???

say again

Good for you. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I fly, on average, 6-8 days/month, while being gone 10-14 days. I don't fuel the plane, loading bags and catering is hardly work, fly every other and not sure what "busy work" you are referring too. My commute is 15 minutes also. Granted I make less than you (98+tips and bonuses), I have no desire going to the bottom of a list. I'd rather my quality of life than making a few extra bucks. If I want to make money, I'll think of something to do in my spare time while not flying. Enjoy the career..it can be a b!tch.