RAH buying Midwest
06-24-2009, 08:19 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by Lifer
-I graduated Aviation HS in 1976
-I started flying personally in 1978
-I graduated Cum Laude Honors Graduate, from City University Of NY, in 1983
-I was in Aircraft Maintenance ( Line Mech, Lead Mech, Aircraft Inspection, NDT Level II- Eddy Current and Ultrasonic Insp ) for over 15 with TWA, Flying Tigers, and Federal Express.
-I started flying Professionally in 1994 ( Carnival Airlines, Pan Am, Sky Trek Int'l, Chautauqua, Midway Airlines, United Airlines, Sony Pictures, RAH )
- I've flown 727-200's, 737-300's, 737-500's, 737-700's, E145LR, E170/175, Falcon 2000's ( Typed on 3 of these aircraft )
- I've got over 7000 hrs of Flying Time.
- I wasn't always an FO , as you can probably tell by now, but, with what has happened to this industry over the years, all the furloughs, companies going out of business, I learned how to survive--got to support my family--always.
- I've been in this game a long, long time
RAH Pilots will not sell themselves short!!!!
There are many people at RAH, like myself with experience--and years--in this game. We will educate the youngsters and make SURE THE BALL, on a NEW CBA, FAIR and PROPER INTEGRATION, is ACCOMPLISHED---PERIOD!
Don't get it twisted---WE WILL GET WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS!!!!
We will also make sure that we DON'T SELL OUR FELLOW INDUSTRY PILOTS SHORT!!!
NO WAY
NO HOW
Jet Jock
Your probably a very cool person, and capable pilot, I believe that you must understand that we will not sell our fellow industry down the river.
This has become a heated topic with people attacking RAH like we are not capable of getting the job done.
Believe me--we will--if it kills me!!!!!
Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.
-I started flying personally in 1978
-I graduated Cum Laude Honors Graduate, from City University Of NY, in 1983
-I was in Aircraft Maintenance ( Line Mech, Lead Mech, Aircraft Inspection, NDT Level II- Eddy Current and Ultrasonic Insp ) for over 15 with TWA, Flying Tigers, and Federal Express.
-I started flying Professionally in 1994 ( Carnival Airlines, Pan Am, Sky Trek Int'l, Chautauqua, Midway Airlines, United Airlines, Sony Pictures, RAH )
- I've flown 727-200's, 737-300's, 737-500's, 737-700's, E145LR, E170/175, Falcon 2000's ( Typed on 3 of these aircraft )
- I've got over 7000 hrs of Flying Time.
- I wasn't always an FO , as you can probably tell by now, but, with what has happened to this industry over the years, all the furloughs, companies going out of business, I learned how to survive--got to support my family--always.
- I've been in this game a long, long time
RAH Pilots will not sell themselves short!!!!
There are many people at RAH, like myself with experience--and years--in this game. We will educate the youngsters and make SURE THE BALL, on a NEW CBA, FAIR and PROPER INTEGRATION, is ACCOMPLISHED---PERIOD!
Don't get it twisted---WE WILL GET WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS!!!!
We will also make sure that we DON'T SELL OUR FELLOW INDUSTRY PILOTS SHORT!!!
NO WAY
NO HOW
Jet Jock
Your probably a very cool person, and capable pilot, I believe that you must understand that we will not sell our fellow industry down the river.
This has become a heated topic with people attacking RAH like we are not capable of getting the job done.
Believe me--we will--if it kills me!!!!!
Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.
One of my Groomsmen is a RAH pilot and I hope that you all get the solid contract we all deserve but time will tell.
Best of luck………………………….
06-24-2009, 08:36 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by JetJock16
This will take some heat but in my mind the only fair seniority merger between two National/Majors and one regional is this: % based merger between F9 and Midwest including all furloughees and then staple the RAH pilots to the bottom. Then place a 5 year fence on top. Or Merge F9 and Midwest and keep RAH separate much like Alaska/Horizon.
IMO, Major airline pilots carry more career weight than the regional pilots do. I know the RAH pilots won’t like this but if it goes before an arbitrator you can guarantee that they will take that into account. Bottom line, no matter how you cut it is that the regionals are a stepping stone to the majors so no regional pilot should be spring boarded on top of those who have already done their time.
IMO, Major airline pilots carry more career weight than the regional pilots do. I know the RAH pilots won’t like this but if it goes before an arbitrator you can guarantee that they will take that into account. Bottom line, no matter how you cut it is that the regionals are a stepping stone to the majors so no regional pilot should be spring boarded on top of those who have already done their time.
06-24-2009, 08:53 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by Ratherbeoffwork
I find it very hard to believe that you would be ok with being stapled to the bottom of your own list behind pilots from Midwest. So if Skywest aquired Midwest, you'de gladly step aside and put them at the top of the list? What if this action put you back in the right seat? I don't believe you for one second! They will be integrated fairly. Putting them at the top of our list is not fair, it's rediculous. Especially for your reason. That we are a regional. Well, so are you by buddy. I think the only difference between us when it comes to this is that we have protection from us being stapled to our own list. It's in our CONTRACT between our UNION and the company. I'd will be handled fairly. So I guess if your management decided to buy them out, you really wouldn't have a say in anything now would you?
Look, I’m just expressing my opinion. No Major pilot should be JR to a 600 hour wonder.
06-24-2009, 09:27 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by JetJock16
OK, yes we are non-union, but not by my choice. As for being stapled to the bottom? Give 5 year fences and it a moot point. They’re a Major and you’re a regional. RAH has hired a lot of greenhorns where as Midwest has not. RAH is a stepping stone and Midwest is not.
Look, I’m just expressing my opinion. No Major pilot should be JR to a 600 hour wonder.
Look, I’m just expressing my opinion. No Major pilot should be JR to a 600 hour wonder.
We have very few 600 hr wonders. Wow! I don't know were to start. I still don't think you'de be ok with this happening to you. As far as Midwest being a major and rah a regional being a reason for us being stapled, you are sadly mistaken. I'm sure that at skywest, you have captains that are senior to Midwest captains, as we do here. Quite a few actually. I'd love to ask our senior captains what they think about a Midwest captain taking his position and number because he has more experience flying that heavy 717 at that major airline. Give everyone on here a break and stop flaming. It's getting pretty obvious that's your intent.
06-24-2009, 09:44 PM
#85
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by JetJock16
True, Houston's a dump compared to Dallas. I was born and raised in Dallas (it's were my father was based with BI) and I love the city but unless I get on with AA I don't see myself returning. I currently live in ATL it’s not much better than HOU. Not because of the humidity or the temperatures, it’s the people.
06-24-2009, 09:46 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 253
This is going to sound really crappy, and I realize that, and fully expect to get burned - but I will throw this point out there, if it hasn't been already (there has been so much banter on RAH I have no clue anymore as to what has been discussed or not).
Regarding the point made that mainline pilots should not fall behind 600 hour wonders... I could genuinely see this argument if the regional acquired a company that actually had large aircraft that were to be integrated into the regional fleet. However, in the case of Midwest - for all intents and purposes, they will not be bringing any aircraft to the table. Outside pilots are being integrated into a seniority list to fly the acquiring company's aircraft with that company's pilots.
Experience or not, it's difficult to justify attempting to staple these folks to the top just because they're older and wiser. It truly sucks, but crap happens in this industry, and I fully expect the defecation to hit the ventilation and fly my way someday, too. We all should. And if my company is lucky enough to be acquired as opposed to dismantled (like my FlyI was), then I surely won't demand to be stapled to the top (although I'm sure I wouldn't mind it - who wouldn't?).
I honestly don't know how to put it into words correctly, but humility needs to be a big part of the Midwest pilots mindset as well as Republics (which despite xtreme's input, shouldn't be a problem with the folks I've worked with). I, myself, have been in a position where instructors were a few years younger than me with a lot less flight time and experience. Guess what - I learned stuff from them, and they learned stuff from me, all the while having a good time.
On a side note, I am hoping that there are Midwest pilots out there who are willing to jump into the contract negotiation fight to help extract the competitive wages that everyone on APC is demanding from RAH pilots. Their future and everyone elses is riding on it. Dump a teaspoon of sugar into a giant pitcher of lemon juice.
Regarding the point made that mainline pilots should not fall behind 600 hour wonders... I could genuinely see this argument if the regional acquired a company that actually had large aircraft that were to be integrated into the regional fleet. However, in the case of Midwest - for all intents and purposes, they will not be bringing any aircraft to the table. Outside pilots are being integrated into a seniority list to fly the acquiring company's aircraft with that company's pilots.
Experience or not, it's difficult to justify attempting to staple these folks to the top just because they're older and wiser. It truly sucks, but crap happens in this industry, and I fully expect the defecation to hit the ventilation and fly my way someday, too. We all should. And if my company is lucky enough to be acquired as opposed to dismantled (like my FlyI was), then I surely won't demand to be stapled to the top (although I'm sure I wouldn't mind it - who wouldn't?).
I honestly don't know how to put it into words correctly, but humility needs to be a big part of the Midwest pilots mindset as well as Republics (which despite xtreme's input, shouldn't be a problem with the folks I've worked with). I, myself, have been in a position where instructors were a few years younger than me with a lot less flight time and experience. Guess what - I learned stuff from them, and they learned stuff from me, all the while having a good time.
On a side note, I am hoping that there are Midwest pilots out there who are willing to jump into the contract negotiation fight to help extract the competitive wages that everyone on APC is demanding from RAH pilots. Their future and everyone elses is riding on it. Dump a teaspoon of sugar into a giant pitcher of lemon juice.
06-24-2009, 09:47 PM
#87
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by JetJock16
OK, yes we are non-union, but not by my choice. As for being stapled to the bottom? Give 5 year fences and it a moot point. They’re a Major and you’re a regional. RAH has hired a lot of greenhorns where as Midwest has not. RAH is a stepping stone and Midwest is not.
Look, I’m just expressing my opinion. No Major pilot should be JR to a 600 hour wonder.
Look, I’m just expressing my opinion. No Major pilot should be JR to a 600 hour wonder.
06-25-2009, 04:47 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by Fletch727
On a side note, I am hoping that there are Midwest pilots out there who are willing to jump into the contract negotiation fight to help extract the competitive wages that everyone on APC is demanding from RAH pilots. Their future and everyone elses is riding on it. Dump a teaspoon of sugar into a giant pitcher of lemon juice.
I especially agree with your last paragraph, extract the Midex negotiating teams experience for pay and work rules and the RAH teams scope, with a dash of Frontier's and you could have a a formidable force to be reckoned with.
06-25-2009, 05:50 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Originally Posted by Lifer
-
-I started flying Professionally in 1994 ( Carnival Airlines, Pan Am, Sky Trek Int'l, Chautauqua, Midway Airlines, United Airlines, Sony Pictures, RAH )
- I've flown 727-200's, 737-300's, 737-500's, 737-700's, E145LR, E170/175, Falcon 2000's ( Typed on 3 of these aircraft )
- I've got over 7000 hrs of Flying Time.
- I've been in this game a long, long time
RAH Pilots will not sell themselves short!!!!
There are many people at RAH, like myself with experience--and years--in this game. We will educate the youngsters and make SURE THE BALL, on a NEW CBA, FAIR and PROPER INTEGRATION, is ACCOMPLISHED---PERIOD!
Don't get it twisted---WE WILL GET WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS!!!!
We will also make sure that we DON'T SELL OUR FELLOW INDUSTRY PILOTS SHORT!!!
NO WAY
NO HOW
-I started flying Professionally in 1994 ( Carnival Airlines, Pan Am, Sky Trek Int'l, Chautauqua, Midway Airlines, United Airlines, Sony Pictures, RAH )
- I've flown 727-200's, 737-300's, 737-500's, 737-700's, E145LR, E170/175, Falcon 2000's ( Typed on 3 of these aircraft )
- I've got over 7000 hrs of Flying Time.
- I've been in this game a long, long time
RAH Pilots will not sell themselves short!!!!
There are many people at RAH, like myself with experience--and years--in this game. We will educate the youngsters and make SURE THE BALL, on a NEW CBA, FAIR and PROPER INTEGRATION, is ACCOMPLISHED---PERIOD!
Don't get it twisted---WE WILL GET WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS!!!!
We will also make sure that we DON'T SELL OUR FELLOW INDUSTRY PILOTS SHORT!!!
NO WAY
NO HOW
I'm happy to hear some Republic pilots understand the importance of your new contract and the E190 pay scale.
The question is... "what is rightfully yours" ?
The MIdwest pilots are taking a giant hit in pay and benefits, the E190 can only be flown it Midwest (not Delta Connect), Republic pilots were used to outsource and undermine a National airline, all Midwest pilots served over many years in this industry to be hired ....
The question is going to be....
WHAT IS "FAIR AND EQUITABLE" IN A MERGER OF SENIORITY LISTS?
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