ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II
07-26-2015, 04:29 PM
#21
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by WhistlePig
If only there was a way to ground people for potential poor headwork, poor decision making, overconfidence, more money than sense or ability ...
Those issues kill far more GA pilots than the medical issues that the 3rd class medical screens out
Those issues kill far more GA pilots than the medical issues that the 3rd class medical screens out
07-26-2015, 06:04 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Cub Cap
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by cardiomd
By the way can anybody link to the full transportation bill rider so we can read it through? I want to get informed on what it actually says...
No doubt Doc, you belong to the AMA, one of the few groups that benefits directly and supports the third class medical charade. As a group, doctors (and lawyers) have a disproportionate number of accidents to the detriment of aviation safety. So, the simple solution is to have a higher level of scrutiny for these professions. Another great idea would be to bring their level of compensation down to that of an airline pilot. In that case, they would not be able to afford an airplane that requires the skills of a professional airman.
ALPA members do not have third class medicals and maybe they think this is of no consequence to them, but they forget, everyone retires one day. ALPA just lost a great deal of support from the retirees. This is a big deal for us. So, please don't ask for us for PAC money or to lobby Congress for you. It is clear you don't support us.
07-26-2015, 06:47 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 984
Originally Posted by Baron50
Yes, that would be an excellent idea. Get the facts, know what you are talking about before you speak...a novel idea. While you are at it, read the data regarding general aviation accidents linked to medical issues. Study the light sport experience. Flying, without the waste of money and time that is called a third class medical exam.
No doubt Doc, you belong to the AMA, one of the few groups that benefits directly and supports the third class medical charade. As a group, doctors (and lawyers) have a disproportionate number of accidents to the detriment of aviation safety. So, the simple solution is to have a higher level of scrutiny for these professions. Another great idea would be to bring their level of compensation down to that of an airline pilot. In that case, they would not be able to afford an airplane that requires the skills of a professional airman.
ALPA members do not have third class medicals and maybe they think this is of no consequence to them, but they forget, everyone retires one day. ALPA just lost a great deal of support from the retirees. This is a big deal for us. So, please don't ask for us for PAC money or to lobby Congress for you. It is clear you don't support us.
No doubt Doc, you belong to the AMA, one of the few groups that benefits directly and supports the third class medical charade. As a group, doctors (and lawyers) have a disproportionate number of accidents to the detriment of aviation safety. So, the simple solution is to have a higher level of scrutiny for these professions. Another great idea would be to bring their level of compensation down to that of an airline pilot. In that case, they would not be able to afford an airplane that requires the skills of a professional airman.
ALPA members do not have third class medicals and maybe they think this is of no consequence to them, but they forget, everyone retires one day. ALPA just lost a great deal of support from the retirees. This is a big deal for us. So, please don't ask for us for PAC money or to lobby Congress for you. It is clear you don't support us.
No I'm actually not an AMA member. I was in the past. Weird that you think that doctors are a homogeneous group. Just like pilots we have different opinions. Third class medical fees are a very small drop in a very large bucket, and it would not factor greatly in opinion of policy.
As a doctor and an aging pilot, I would be at the mercy of any rules too. I care about keeping people healthy and safe, and I already have enough money to comfortably retire. It is not a big motivation for me. So give the conspiracy theory a rest.
While you are at it, read the data regarding general aviation accidents linked to medical issues.
A good counter might be how many people have auto crashes as a result of medical issues? Well, I see them a lot. Drivers licenses are given quite easily and have a very low medical barrier to obtain, essentially zero.
Another great idea would be to bring their level of compensation down to that of an airline pilot. In that case, they would not be able to afford an airplane that requires the skills of a professional airman.
So, anybody have a link to the actual text of the bill?
07-26-2015, 07:01 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by VFA201
Keep in mind there is essentially no drivers license medical. So if you eliminate 3rd class then grandpa who hasn't seen a doc in 25 years can take the grandkids for a ride in his aeronca. Very bad things can happen.
Sorry but gramps does not need a medical to fly the Champ as a sport pilot so what difference does 3rd class medical make?
Sorry but gramps does not need a medical to fly the Champ as a sport pilot so what difference does 3rd class medical make?
one flight.
07-26-2015, 07:22 PM
#26
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Flynkayaker
How many ALPA members here are aware that ALPA National has stated they are against the elimination of the third class medical.
I don't remember being polled on that one!!!!
Aren't you being a little dishonest with the thread title?
"ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II"
ALPA is not opposed the Pilot Bill of Rights, they're opposed to the elimination of the Third Class Medical exam for a guy who wants to fly around at 14,000' with five of his friends in a light twin.
A pilot safety advocate advocating for pilot safety. How insane is that?!
.
07-26-2015, 07:44 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Originally Posted by TonyC
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Aren't you being a little dishonest with the thread title?
"ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II"
ALPA is not opposed the Pilot Bill of Rights, they're opposed to the elimination of the Third Class Medical exam for a guy who wants to fly around at 14,000' with five of his friends in a light twin.
A pilot safety advocate advocating for pilot safety. How insane is that?!
.
Aren't you being a little dishonest with the thread title?
"ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II"
ALPA is not opposed the Pilot Bill of Rights, they're opposed to the elimination of the Third Class Medical exam for a guy who wants to fly around at 14,000' with five of his friends in a light twin.
A pilot safety advocate advocating for pilot safety. How insane is that?!
.
07-26-2015, 08:39 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Cub Cap
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by cardiomd
That didn't take long to go full blown crazy!
No I'm actually not an AMA member. I was in the past. Weird that you think that doctors are a homogeneous group. Just like pilots we have different opinions. Third class medical fees are a very small drop in a very large bucket, and it would not factor greatly in opinion of policy.
As a doctor and an aging pilot, I would be at the mercy of any rules too. I care about keeping people healthy and safe, and I already have enough money to comfortably retire. It is not a big motivation for me. So give the conspiracy theory a rest.
It is low, but a low rate might be considered evidence of the medical evaluation's efficacy, screening out those with potential events, not ammunition to get rid of it.
A good counter might be how many people have auto crashes as a result of medical issues? Well, I see them a lot. Drivers licenses are given quite easily and have a very low medical barrier to obtain, essentially zero.
No I'm actually not an AMA member. I was in the past. Weird that you think that doctors are a homogeneous group. Just like pilots we have different opinions. Third class medical fees are a very small drop in a very large bucket, and it would not factor greatly in opinion of policy.
As a doctor and an aging pilot, I would be at the mercy of any rules too. I care about keeping people healthy and safe, and I already have enough money to comfortably retire. It is not a big motivation for me. So give the conspiracy theory a rest.
It is low, but a low rate might be considered evidence of the medical evaluation's efficacy, screening out those with potential events, not ammunition to get rid of it.
A good counter might be how many people have auto crashes as a result of medical issues? Well, I see them a lot. Drivers licenses are given quite easily and have a very low medical barrier to obtain, essentially zero.
Yes, Doctors may differ and I believe that they truly have an honest intent to help people. Nevertheless, this issue transcends casual and anecdotal analysis. The largest private pilot organizations have done the work and presented hard evidence to Congress. While SWAPA and APA concur, at the 11th hour, ALPA, for reasons only known to a few insiders, decided to throw a wrench into the process.
It does make us Crazy
One problem with the debate, Airline Pilots never take a third class medical exam. Few of them know it is simply a waste of time, unlikely to find anything serious. If you can walk in, many AME's say you are good to go, thanks for the check. The really sick ones don't bother to comply with any rules. They are more numerous than you would think.
Most older pilots know when to hang it up, they don't need anyone to tell them. The few that do, still need to find an instructor to sign their log book every two years. The arguments today are similar to those we heard over age 60. They would be a threat to aviation safety, they would be falling over the controls. Well, it didn't happen and neither will eliminating unnecessary medical exams affect the american transportation system.
07-26-2015, 08:39 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by TonyC
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Aren't you being a little dishonest with the thread title?
"ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II"
ALPA is not opposed the Pilot Bill of Rights, they're opposed to the elimination of the Third Class Medical exam for a guy who wants to fly around at 14,000' with five of his friends in a light twin.
A pilot safety advocate advocating for pilot safety. How insane is that?!
.
Aren't you being a little dishonest with the thread title?
"ALPA against PILOT BILL OF RIGHTS II"
ALPA is not opposed the Pilot Bill of Rights, they're opposed to the elimination of the Third Class Medical exam for a guy who wants to fly around at 14,000' with five of his friends in a light twin.
A pilot safety advocate advocating for pilot safety. How insane is that?!
.
Plenty of pilots are legally flying certain planes today without third class medical certificates and doing so safely.
07-26-2015, 08:52 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Plenty of pilots are legally flying certain planes today without third class medical certificates and doing so safely.
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