NineGturn

Exactly!! Except that CBREEZY cares because his job appears to be to push this PR campaign for the RAA in these forums and convince us all of the opposite. (Of course he denies it).


See? utter nonsense!

skypilot35

I think the pilot profession reputation has been severely degraded over the past several years. I think that degradation has been intentional on the part of management. It best suits them that we are JUST a labor group. The prestige and professionalism associated with being a pilot needs a revival. I am not sure how to accomplish that but wages and compensation are a start.

1500 hours is a drop in the bucket of experience especially considering the airplanes most of us fly. A 1500 hour pilot in a Kingair is marginal enough, but when you start putting the 1500 hour pilot in a jet, especially a pilot who was flying a C172 last month, it's ludicrous and yes there is a severe safety concern. Fortunately, the majority of regional captains currently operating CRJs / ERJs have several thousand hours and can absorb some of the new FO's inexperience (I'm a new FO by the way).

I think one of the most dangerous types of pilots is the one who does not recognize his limitations. More importantly doesn't vocalize those limitations to the guy / gal sitting next to him. For example, "Hey, Im new. Watch me and make sure I don't f@ck this up". I have generally found the guys I fly with to be receptive to that methodology and it doesn't hurt my pride one bit to admit it. Just my perspective.

sqwkvfr

The top of the pay scale at my regional pays less (almost $5K less) than a starting police officer at a 21,000 person city in South Dakota; a state that has one of the lowest costs of living in the nation.

I'm not money hungry....a livable and reasonable salary commensurate with my level of responsibility that provides a reasonable return on investment for the great sacrifices that I've made and the hardships that I've endured to get to my position is all I'm after.

If failing to protect and defend measures that help me achieve that somehow makes the public perceive my "profession" in a more favorable light, then I'm not on board. Public perception does not translate into proper salary or work rules. If it did, we'd have both right now.

A former boss used to tell me "if you need the public to love you, go work for the fire department."

I'm not sure what course of action you champion, but considering that regional, and, by extension, all professional pilots are finally on the cusp of meaningful change, I'd suggest that this article, no matter how distasteful we may find it, is actually helping our drive for better wages, working conditions, and, if you like, a better path to the airline pilot career.

CBreezy

If don't sit here and spout doom and gloom I'm automatically on the side of the RAA? You're an idiot.

You say weak pilots are flying at majors and they come from the regionals. That's an outlandish statement. There are bad pilots EVERYWHERE. In fact, some of the dumbest and least competent USAF officers I know finished pilot training.

So your solution can only be solved by paying more? I would argue that there should be far more training done in the sim over the course of a career.

I'm not on the side of the companies I just am not gullible to believe that people would be safer if I were paid more. People would be safer if their pilots were better trained by the companies. So people get afraid that their airplane is in imminent danger because of this moron's article. The first thing Congress would do would be increase training requirements to get hired. That cost is going to roll down hill. I already paid $80k for my training without a government guaranteed loan

CBreezy

I'm not saying we shouldn't be paid more. I never said that. I'm saying this looks like union propaganda during a time with incredible downward pressure on unions. Have you ever read news about Norwegian or the ME3? If ALPA releases statements, they are trying to prevent non-unionized labor and hampering competition. Unionized labor in this country has gone from a majority to less than 17% and trending downward. To publish an article on a major publication that regionals are unsafe and only provide ONE solution, pay, then you come across as typical unionized labor. I want to make meaningful change. I don't want to be like those guys on the road with "shame on you" signs trying to pretend like the 83% of the country that isn't in a union gives a poop about them. The best way to win this battle is with facts, not scare tactics.

skypilot35

I did find some of the article insulting, but take the personal aspect of it away and the majority of the points are spot-on.

I think the number one concern in our occupation is safety. Any factors that erode the margins of safety should be addressed however unsavory they may be. This has been a long time coming. I understand your irritation with the article, but I doubt it will have any impact on the public majority. If the article only serves to make the public aware that safety margins may be compromised in exchange for cost, then isn't that a win either way?

JathinB

BREAKING NEWS.... humans accrue experience with age. I would have thought that someone who flew Obama around would have a little more insight than that.

#thanksobama

JathinB

IN OTHER BREAKING NEWS.... Brand new Dr performs surgery under supervision of older more experienced Dr. Don't go to the doctor.

NineGturn

I'm not going to bother reporting you to a mod....it's a waste of my time. Please stop with the childish insults.

I don't accuse you of siding with the RAA, I accused you of working for them. You spend a massive amount of time pushing their agenda in these and other forums using this and probably other screen names. You actively discourage pilots from seeking higher wages and you attack any point of view that is contrary to the agenda of BB and his RAA cohorts. Then you have the audacity to try to dance your way out of it and misquote me and everybody else.

I have made my points clear in the past on training. Airlines spend too much time on transition and upgrade training which causes the very domino effect described in the article.

I also don't specifically have a problem with new first officers who have low time...everyone must start somewhere. I have a problem with policies that restrict all hiring to entry level positions only and rock bottom pay causing a severely low level of company wide experience during periods of rapid hiring and/or expansion such as now. Higher wages would attract higher experienced pilots...this is a proven fact and not something you can just pretend isn't true.

A balanced hiring system at these airlines that attracts seasoned and high time pilots as well as low time pilots with pay being commensurate with experience would be a far better solution for safety.

There! That is the exact nonsensical statements that tell me you're not likely a real pilot....unless of course you aren't a real pilot...then it's a true statement because it's very likely paying a RAA public relations worker more money would have no effect on aviation safety.

Regional airline training is actually quite good from what I've seen lately. It's come a long way from the old days when I flew 19 seaters. I doubt Congress is interested in changing that and making pilots pay for it...besides, it's not possible to pay regional pilots any less at this point.

Ha! I didn't know PR and lobbying firms required you to pay for your own training.

CBreezy

Take the tinfoil hat off and report me. Please. Don't make hollow threats. If you truly think I'm a corporate stooge, turn me in.

Also, only an ignorant fool would fall for "safety issues are fixed if you pay employees more." If the shoe fits...

If there is a critical safety issue then we should fix it immediately. Right now. What is your recommendation? I'm not going to sit idly by while you try to devalue my hard work by calling me dangerous and risk to public safety...especially when there is a very good chance I'm a better stick than you anyway.

The only way this pay problem gets fixed is if mainline pilots take scope back.