Originally Posted by
Duksrule
For the guys who got hired with low time and suddenly had the epiphany that "wow I don't know as much as I thought and I am not safe" I ask DID YOU QUIT or did you continue to work and learn?
It seems to me that many highlighting the need for more experience in the cockpit are from the generation when you need thousands of hours and much more experience than currently required to even have a shot at FO in a JS or Saab. Your question would more likely be answered from the new CAs who were hired and upgraded within the last few years (maybe at the time of the last "hiring boom" - if they have even upgraded yet).
In the end - even if you are correct and they have forgotten where they came from - - - two wrongs don't make a right.
But if it is just the learning curve of being a new FO well then I do feel that part of the CAs job is to mentor junior pilots. As a MC aviator did you ever mentor your JOs? Or did you say "screw you, you are a low time bad pilot and it isn't my job to teach you"? My guess is that you held training whether it was your "job" or not.
MENTORING and TEACHING are two different things. No one argues that new FOs don't need mentoring or even INSTRUCTION in the ways of the world regarding P121 operations. No matter your background growing up whether it be night dogging it or coming out of military heavy international experience - - those pilots still need mentoring and instruction in the ways of airline flying. THAT is what IOE CAs and training CAs are required to do. If you read carefully - many of these CAs who have answered this thread are saying that they have had to INSTRUCT in BASIC FLYING principles, not the details of their particular airlines OpSecs, FOMs, or finer details of airline flying. That is not good.
What did we do as MC aviators in the fleet? We complained to the training squadrons (Basic, Advanced and RAGs/FRSs) that some of the students they were sending us couldn't even rendezvous correctly or were still making what was considered basic mistakes and all concerned continued to tweak the training syllabus' to target those areas of most frequent complaints.
FLEET INSTRUCTION (think airline IOE) consisted of more advance flying and more indepth tactics (think P121 training) and FLEET IPs (think IOE CAs) didn't have time or opportunity to be training basic airmanship.
My only point is that 1500 isn't a magic number.
Nope - nothing magical about it at all except a lot of studies I presume, and a lot of smart people sitting around the table, trying to come up with some number and set amount of experience that proerly equated the the highest rating available in the US aviation system. I'm sure someone will always have a different idea - especially if it is viewed by that someone as inhibiting them in any way. What number of hours would YOU come up with Duks if you were tasked with providing a quality or quantity of hours/training? Could you sell it to the government and the public as the end all, be all answer? Could you defend it against the ants coming out of the woodwork who would cite study after study to discredit your 'arbitrary' minimums?
USMCFLYR