Originally Posted by
Swedish Blender
I flew with some FOs I didn't think could fly a kite. Very few. Most were safe point A to B. I'm sure they could handle the airplane if something happened. They were not necessarily flying a good airplane but could get the job done. Was it unsafe for the pax? No, but the aircraft could be flown a lot better.
The highlighted parts above are just plain scary if you are talking about pilots in a P121 operation. Imagine saying those things about a surgeon operating on your child or a lawyer defending you in court and tell me that you would have the same attitude. I know that I don't want the public defender who just passed the bar last month as my only resource!
IMO, you do have to teach some basic airmanship as it relates to your particular aircraft.
And that is aircraft specific - like the mentoring that we spoke of earlier or even training/instruction as would be expected to be given by IOE CAs right?
I think that we are fairly clear on the difference of IOE/airline training and the training that others are speaking of in this thread and others.
You were winged and knew how to fly. So are you telling me when you got to the RAG (FRS now?) you knew everything about flying Hornets? I'm sure you could fly it fine. But were you better employing it afterward? Apples and oranges I know but the premise is the same.
You lost me on this point. The RAG/FRS is where you get you BASIC instruction in your fleet aircraft; so no....I didn't know anything about flying the Hornet when I showed up in the RAG/FRS. As I said in an earlier post - your point would be more in line with the FLEET IPs having to teach such BASIC principles as proper rendezvous', basic instrument flying, or proper positioning in standard formation flight. I have seen people sent back to training (or kicked out) because they did not get enough training in the RAG/FRS and were a burden to the fleet gun squadrons because they don't have the time or training alloted to work on basics; much like I doubt the operating cockpit of a P121 airliner is the place for basic training. I said this earlier too and I'll reemphasis here again: Think about the level of training and quality of training that the military pilots have had when they come out of pilot training, the things that they have already been through by the time they reach 300 hours for example and I wouldn't want that person anywhere near a P121 cockpit flying my friends and family around.
If these posters are saying their FOs are dangerous and can't fly at all, that's a training/hiring issue. If they are really unsafe then the captains need to turn them in to standards.
Just like the training command or RAG/FRS not giving enough instruction, it certainly is a training/hiring issue. They ought not be hiring piots with such low times/relative inexperience and they ought not need such extensive basic training once they get put ito a revenue generating P121 flight operation.
USMCFLYR