Originally Posted by
Speed
Bottom line, I believe it's a bit silly (and pointless) to say that operating light aircraft is "flying" and operating an airliner is not. Likewise, I would say that it is a bit ridiculous to quibble over which is "harder". Operating any aircraft requires conscientious effort and attention to detail. An individual who does not recognize that should not be at the controls of either.
Nice post, for the most part I agree with you and I understand that I am making vast generalizations. Yes, in both scenarios you are technically flying an airplane. However take an airline pilot 30 years ago and compare that to the job of a pilot in a CRJ today. The connection between pilot and aircraft is so far removed that pilots are now more a computer monitor/operator rather than a pilot. I think this was my point back in my original post. It is a lot more fun to fly a plane rather than just monitor it. There is no arguing that this is the current direction of aviation and I'm not saying that is bad - it is just the way it is. I've heard from 777 pilots that V1 cuts are so simple that sometimes they don't even notice they lost an engine, these are the kinds of things I am talking about.
Originally Posted by
HAL39
If the captain and I were just trained monkeys, doing as we're told, assuming everything is rainbows and lollipops...we would've flown through several storms, almost run out of gas, and tossed our passengers out of their seats flying through buildups into MSP
So now I have to ask the question....if you believe airline pilots are "over-glorified", and that what we do on a day to day basis is simple, and virtually worthless, then what are you still doing in this industry? Why have you chosen to continue to do something that you believe is worthless? This is not just my humble opinion, but an imperative based on your assertions....you should quit. Tomorrow. Stop wasting your time, and ours. Go back to school, become an accountant...experience what a TRULY boring job is like...and fly your 172 on the side. Most importantly, get out of the way so that someone who wants nothing more than to be in your shoes, and will become an agent of positive change in this industry, can have their shot.
I will offer the caveat that yes, there were exceptions to the rules when a flight crew is presented with a plethora of difficult decisions that a GA pilot could not even comprehend. This is the reason you have a job - if the possibility didn't exist for someone to have to make difficult decisions then there would in the end be no humans, just computers. This is however the exception and no where near the rule. I understand you had to make some difficult decisions about what flight level to fly but luckily there were two people thinking together. You don't think people in light aircraft have to make those same decisions. I understand there are more people in the back of your aircraft - does that change the way you make decisions? Give me an honest assessment was changing flight levels and going around thunderstorms that difficult of a decision? In 90% of flights what kind of decisions are you making?
I never said your job was worthless or simple. And how am I wasting your time? See herein lies the problem in this industry, you prop this profession up to such a high level (maybe it deserves it and maybe it doesn't) that 10 pilots will always be right behind you to replace you at half your wage - it is sad. I am not saying I don't like being a pilot but I am not going to lie to myself so I can sleep tonight telling myself this job is something that it really isn't. I am not belittling this profession. I think pilots should be highly education, highly trained and highly paid professionals. As I passenger I would expect nothing less. And as a professional pilot I try to hold myself to a high standard of proficiency, professionalism and competency. I understand why it needs to be that way. This does not mean I think being a pilot is something that I need to over-glamorize put up on a pedestal.
Does it really bother you that much to think that on most days flying a 172 is harder than your current job? Does it bruise your ego that much that you have to come on her and tell me to quit my job because you don't agree with my opinion. We are just having a friendly discussion here.
Originally Posted by
CrustyFE
The first officer of the Colgan Air accident wasn't doing anything important when she failed to back up her captain and then made the unimportant decision to bring the flaps up in the midst of a stall. Of course she also decided to take a red eye while she was sick and then decided to fly like that the same day without rest. Yep, no important decisions made there.
The FO on Air France 447 decided to pull back on the joystick which stalled the aircraft and killed everyone on board. As wrong as that decision was I guess that wasn't important either.
And none of the other airline accidents that ever occurred could have ever been corrected if the first officer tried to correct the situation. Might as well just get rid of the first officer and go to single pilot cockpits.
Is that pretty much what you're saying jayray2?
I think there would be a lot more aluminum showers then there already are if there were no FO's on the flight deck. that's a bit more realistic.
There is no private pilot on this planet that will ever have anything close to the responsibility of a first officer on the smallest regional airline. A private pilot will never be responsible for the lives of more than a few people on a regular basis in the same manner as an FO. It's not really even fair to compare a private pilot to a part 121 FO. Their level of responsibility isn't the same. Not even close.
The main duty of an FO is to assist the captain. They alone must decide if the captain is performing his or her assigned task properly. It is the responsibility of the FO to take over control of the aircraft if the captain deviates from standards and does not correct. That happens more often than most people realize. A good captain will appreciate an FO that keeps him, the crew, and the passengers out of trouble. I've been thanked several times as an FO.
If the Colgan FO had her head out of her ass she would not have let the Captain get away with not maintaining airspeed in the first place and that accident would have never happened. In point of fact, her hours were so low she still was likely operating at the private pilot level. That kind of explains a good part of that accident.
An incompetent private pilot crashes a Cessna. An incompetent FO can crash an airliner. Having a competent person in the right has made the difference between a minor error and hundreds of people dying.
There is no comparison to decision making in a 172 to decision making in an airliner.
I never compared the level of responsibility. It started out by me saying that flying for the airlines is not as fun and actually quite removed from the actually flying of an airplane. And then I went on to say in most cases the pilot of a 172 has a plethora of decisions to make while airline pilots biggest decision is sugar or cream. I said in rare occasions this is not the case. This is why there are two pilots in the actual cockpit and not in some office somewhere flying remotely. For every Colgan or Air France accident I can give you 100 GA accidents - to me the crash statistics tell the whole story. Flying around in the aviation system outside an airline environment is more deadly by 100 times (yes, I made that number up). What does that tell you?