I am as disillusioned with Alpa over the years as anyone. BUT, with all their bloat in DC, all the perceived conflicts of interest, would we be any better without them? The same guys (or types of guys) will eventually be running any new union. How's APA looking? What about Ucrapa? Swapa? They got most of their gains before we all got sodomized. With the exception of scope, we would not have wanted their contract in the pre ch11 period. Remember, that they did not negotiate ****, they just piggybacked on better contracts and took a contract that put them below Dal, Ual, Nwa, Lcc etc.(All Alpa btw) that put them where they(and luv mgmt like)to be. Somewhere in the middle. Decent pay and workrules but not the best. That way they could still compete (undercutting us) but not be a training ground for other airlines. Again, I am sure I will get slammed by Carl and a few of the true believers of everything anti alpa. In reality WE are to blame. On the NWA side 63% voted yes, not sure about the South. So look in the mirror or at the dude next to you(or in Carl's case almost 3 out of 4 on a over 12 hr flt) if you were a NO voter. As a group we are a bunch of spineless pussies. How is that going to change?