Originally Posted by
LeeFXDWG
Slammer,
Your post is a little bit of a shotgun, but I'll try to respond. As a Vol Furlough, if I had accepted a job offer at CAL, given both are ALPA, yes, I'd expect my DOH and longevity regarding all aspects of the offer. Simple pay adjustment doesn't truly reflect that seniority at UAL. Seniority should be much more than about pay. Not to degrade the pay of junior but rather to enhance the good things. You think it's okay for me to suck the bottom of the schedule when I've given way more to UCH than you probably have. Accept treatment as a NH when I was flying airplanes before your youngest FO was born. Give me a serious break.
As to invol UAL furloughs, the ISL will decide, but they've given way more than your most junior pilot has ever envisioned.
CAL guys have no idea really what UAL folks have been through. We obviously haven't lived your life either. Having said that, this is one company with regards to the operation even though the entities are divided.
Getting 12 year pay to pull gear for some "kid" by taking a CAL job offer isn't in my personal horizon. And, I left knowing the merger was going to happen by the obvious "right sizing" of the airline by parking UAL aircraft to ensure not having to deal with divesting assets to secure DOJ approval.
In a perfect world, we'd have a real union and a national seniority list. But, making the folks that took the "job offer" which should never be confused with a recall, start at the bottom of your list at what was UAL and now UCH subsidiary is wrong. Most of them have paid their "dues" well over the required amount.
No more wrong than any whipsaw action taken by the company regarding PS or any other issue in the TPA progression.
You see. Wrong is wrong. I left for many reasons. It doesn't mean I don't reserve my right to return.....on my terms. So while you see some pilot taking a position offered under the TPA as a gift to that individual, I see it as an insult given the conditions of the offer......and that pilot that takes said position is giving their service generating revenue to the new combined corporate entity. And, taking it up the arse at the same time.
So, in summary, as a Vol Furlough, I will not go to the bottom of UAL if recalled, nor to the bottom of the ISL whenever that comes. I will also never accept a job on the CAL side given your POS contract that has draconian work rules and to sit there watching you pontificate on issue x,y, or z, from your position of perceived dominance. I'll come back to my seniority number. It is mine and will equate to whatever the arbitration board decides after the JCBA is inked and the obvious ISL arbitration that comes after makes its final decision.
Frats,
Lee
Lee,
You forget that at least 50 percent of this merger includes L-CAL, its pilots and their seniority and CBA. What you did or flew or experienced, has no bearing on the L-CAL seniority list and vice versa wrt to L-UA. BTW, the agreement to offer to UA furloughs was agreed upon, to include seniority and pay by both MECs. FWIW..UA furloughs were given more benefits, than our own CAL guys that were recalled. You have a 747 and Bus Captain, pulling gear and getting paid at their last rate ( good for them) but to think a new hire to L-CAL should bypass current seniority system is ridiculous. My statement ref where an involuntary furlough would be placed if recalled to L-UA...the bottom, below active guys already on property, so why would he expect to go ahead of line holders, because of time at another carrier. Not sure why your MEC did not address the voluntary furlough issue, but suspect they knew it would be DOA with the CAL MEC and pilot group. we are operationally and legally separate pilot groups... which effectively was the situation when CAL/UA and ALPA agreed to hiring UA furloughs. As you stated, there is no national seniority list, so where is the precedence for such an aberration of seniority for those active on a list? Has L-UA in its history, ever hired furloughs from other carriers and placed them ahead of active pilots? Other airlines? The JCBA and ISL is the process and road ahead... the DOH concept as you allude too above, as a cure to all that endured, will not be the principle method if we are ever going to,integrate. As you know,.Timing is everything. In the 90s,UA was the place, and CAL just the opposite.... UA was growing, CAL barely kept head above the water. You were bringing on aircraft and hiring, CAL,not so much . Post 9/11 CAL hired and new orders for the past 7 years...UA has not. Not meant to slam, just a fact, Both companies have been on the bottom.... If the merger had happened in the 90s, with the scenario,mentioned above,and furloughed CAL guys offered a job to UA, i doubt very seriously you or MEC would support your present position of leapfrogging active pilots...because as you stated wrong is wrong. Don't assume guys at CAL have not suffered...multiple BKs, furloughs and 9/11...just like most of the industry and UA....some were TWA, AMR, and furloughed UA guys that got hired in the last decade...