Originally Posted by
B757200ER
The relative SLIs at DL/NW and UA/CO weren't crafted with 'career expectations', just fair & equitable integration of pilots flying like-sized equipment---and neutral, binding 3rd-party arbitration.
The SLI in the DL/NW merger was absolutely figured in with career expectations: why do you think there are equipment fences? Why was there a 7 year fence around TWA widebody flying for OZ pilots?
BECAUSE OF CAREER EXPECTATIONS. Wake up dude! It is ALWAYS figured in EVERY merger - binding arbitration or not. The UA/CO deal has not been arbitrated yet, but they will no doubt figure in
CAREER EXPECTATIONS from both airlines when they arbitrate it.
US/HP was quite different, but there is no doubting the TWA/AA integration was completely one-sided, inequitable and void of any arbitrated decision (which APA fought long and hard to deny TWA pilots) and resulted in the wholesale destruction of most of TWA's 2400 pilots and their future careers. Only 495 were left at AA after furloughs, FERBs and attrition.
I am
BLUE IN THE FACE from agreeing with you that APA's
PROCESS was unfair! How many times do you want me to agree with that premise! And yet you continue to re-quote it.
I didn't own any seat? So it's okay for you to replace me on TWA jets, flying TWA routes out of TWA hubs with TWA Captains? Remember your sentence above if US staples you and you get furloughed/displaced. You'll feel exactly the same, my friend.
No, you didn't own any seat. I sure as heck don't own any seat at AA. The company owns the seat. And yes, it absolutely was OK to "replace" you (your words, not mine) in STL flying AA jets on AA routes out of an AA hub with AA Captains - because the company needed to fill those positions. Good luck trying to convince anyone that you "OWNED" that flying. You didn't "OWN" that flying any more that I "OWN" my JFK/767 F/O seat.
As far as upgrading, it is very hard to predict the future. If AA down-sizes, comes out of Chapter 11 and either merges or is bought-out, your future upgrade potential will change as well. I take your "AA today bears no resemblance whatsoever to TWA in 2001. Way ahead on size, financials, routes, fleet expansion, retirements... " to mean that AA is better, AA pilots are more entitled and AA pilots deserve more than TWA, TWA pilots or TWA employees did in 2001. Do I have that right?
No, you don't have that right. You are interpreting what I am saying in your own emotional way. I'm not trying to say I'm better or superior to a TWA pilot during that BK in 2001. I'm simply pointing out that our integration with USAir will probably bear no resemblance to the integration with TWA, simply because of the enormous dynamic difference between today's US/AA pilot groups and the AA/TWA pilot groups, financials, and yes- career expectations. AA bought TWA's assets at what amounted to a fire sale. USAir will be MERGING with a much bigger company that it needs. Two totally different deals.
It doesn't change one very important thing:
AA IS BANKRUPT.
Duh.
Someone else will be deciding your collective futures---either the bankruptcy court, the judge or another airline or even another pilot union. You may think AA is in a better position than TWA was in '01, and BTW your retirements comment was incorrect (TWA had greater % of retirements), but AA is still not in control of its future.
I agree with you on everything there except for the "other union" part. That won't happen: both unions will try and come to an agreement, and if they don't McCaskill/Bond legislation will apply.
One last retort: your description of TWA being a domestic airline?
"TWA was practically a domestic airline at time of asset acquisition with a few Carib and Europe routes. South America? NONE. Asia? NONE. Far East? NONE. Widebodies? a few 762s and 763s. 777s? NONE."
Do you realize you just described USAirways perfectly (substitute A330s for 763s)? Look at the questions above. One very important distinction, however; this time the 'domestic' airline will be buying AA, not the other way around. We'll see how any future integration goes after AA and their 'unions' so dispicably treated employees from most airlines they acquired in the past. Turnabout is fair play.
So what? I was describing TWA's size at time of acquisition simply because you have convinced yourself that AA and TWA are in the same boat just because AA is in BK. They're not. Due to US/AA's size, routes, financials, and career expectations, I fully expect an arbitrator to craft an integration similar to DL/NW and UA/CO. AA/TW was more along the lines of bigger airline buying assets of much smaller airline out of BK. It's not that hard to see. That will NOT be the case here unless AA shrinks itself down to the size of an airline similar to TWA and is broken up into assets for sale.