Originally Posted by Jay5150

You need to stop right there. You are talking about something that you obviously know nothing about. Your "facts" are so distorted that I won't bother debating them.

We here at DAL fully understand that the junior-most guys at ComAir had nothing to to with the heartburn of post 9-11 furloughees and the RJDC.

At the same time, if you didn't do your due-diligence on the operation that you were stepping into, well what can I say.

I've been on many jumpseats. I've had a problem on 2. Both ComAir.

One, I listened to a senior (and old) -900 captain tell me his life story that ended with him stating that he felt it was only right that the ComAir guys should have gotten relative seniority when we bought them. Yes, that's right, an RJ guy should have suddenly been the #2 777 captain.

Second, had a ComAir FO tell me that it was only right that should they have hired me post 9-11, that I should have to resign my DAL number. "why am I any better or different than any other pilot" he said. "anybody else would have to quit their previous job."

If I have to explain the complete ridiculousness of giving away a DAL number to start at the bottom of ANY regional, then I don't know what to say.

Evil, the can of worms that you're playing with goes really deep, and I would guess, before your time..........

leave it alone.

Originally Posted by SuperPilotJesse

I've commuted my entire career and never had a bad experience. Does that make me a liar too?

Originally Posted by captainv

Nice to say, Jay, but not my experience. Of the handful of CMR guys that have been hired at DAL, how many were junior and "had nothing to do with it"?

We all get painted with the same brush. I started class at Comair three weeks before JC wrote his letter. Coming from corporate flying, my due diligence came up with nothing but rainbows and unicorns. Lots of growth, great contract, future was bright. ASA was stagnant and there was a 6-month wait for a class date. Oh well.

Lucky for you that your MEC has never done something you vehemently disagree with.

I've "gotten into it" with dozens of DAL crews. Or, I should say they got into it with me. Almost all were MD-88/737 crews. Even at the height of the furloughs, the 757 and bigger crews seemed oblivious to what was going on. I took no offense, it was their buddies that were being furloughed. A close friend of mine, who had encouraged me to go to Comair, was one of the Delta furloughs. I didn't mind being lectured, yelled at or ignored, about the strike or the RJDC or other things I had no involvement in, all I wanted was a ride to work. Funny that years later, when a MD-88 captain denied me the jumpseat out of JFK simply because I was a Comair guy, most other Delta guys were all spun up about Delta letting Republic fly for/against them out of DEN. I got home 1.5 hours late, no big deal.

It doesn't much matter now, does it?

Originally Posted by evilboy

Very nice Capt........All I hear from people like JAY is blah blah blah. Just tell me if I an ride in your precious plane or not, that's it. As a commuter I'd never deny a jumpseat to ANYONE (yes even GoJet) for the reason being, I'm a commuter. My beef has always been an will continue to be with DL mgmt. They are the only ones that stand to gain financially from this mess. The Pilots don't figure into this at all. The "bad blood" amongts both groups stems from a very few -from both sides- playing the "who's got the biggest penis" game. Everybody else is just collaterla damage. JAY5150, you need some anger mgmt sir. Good day.

Originally Posted by Staylow

I find it funny that you only have the two Comair jumpseats to complain about. That's why I think you are full of sh*t. You're just another mainline pilot who stalks the regional forums speading hate and discontent. A person with nothing good to say and getting off on bashing the Comair pilots. And this is "my" profession, and I'm not going to sit by while guys like you bash my fellow pilots. So get off the regional forums and go spread your bullsh*t with "your" fellow pilots. I don't think they will like it either...just saying.

Originally Posted by evilboy

Jay, there's no need to go. I think we all should be able to accept everyone's opinion. I for one prefer no annimosity when discussing points of view and/or experiences.

Originally Posted by captainv

In fairness to Jay, maybe he jumpseated with one of those super senior guys who went from Navajos to CRJs and made crazy money just from Comair stock way back when Comair was in charge of its own destiny. There was even talk of Comair buying out another airline and getting mainline-size jets. When Delta bought Comair, all that ended, but the what ifs have gotten rosier over the years. I can easily imagine one of those guys thinking #2 777 CA would be the proper windfall. Comair has its share of crazies, just like anywhere else.

But i don't think the strike or the Lawson letter have much to do with Comair's fate. Oldest airplanes, most senior pilots, highest payscale. Shrinking to its current size has made Comair what has to be the most expensive regional in the history of aviation. I think RA pays attention to spreadsheets, not settling old scores.

As for the Lawson letter, I've always wondered what the real impact of it was. Absolutely, more ASA guys were hired as a result. But how many more, exactly, in the last 10 years? Dozens? Hundreds?

I hope the hiring spree comes soon, otherwise all those ASA FOs will face the same meager options we did all those years.

Originally Posted by Staylow

No stress to me; whatever your justifications are. Go shout and shake your fist about our MEC, RJDC and whatever else you feel the Comair pilot group did to wrong you with your fellow DL pilots. No one wants to hear it here. But if I was a betting man, I’d bet you’ll be back stalking the regional forums tomorrow. Sad.

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY

No need to go Jay. Understanding this debacle that had gone on for years is difficult when not everyone has all of the facts.

It was unrealistic for CMR to think that the DL furloughed pilots should have to give up their SN #s. Equally unrealistic for DL to think that CMR should swallow a $20k training cost for a pilot who is going to leave in a few months. Sad that both sides have people that just won't let go. The CMR guys and gals were sadly faulted for the actions of a MGMT and 2 Union leaders. I was hired less than a month before JC wrote that letter, but I was constantly questioned and hammered on my commutes. Most of the time, it was only the flight time before I had both DL pilots in the completely the opposite opinion of me from when I got on board and asked for a ride. ( I used the Jedi mind trick) Sometimes it was more severe, as is the case for the one of the two DL FO's on the ramp retrieving our bags, who thought his point would be made if he poked his finger into my chest. A great majority of the DL guys and gals were great! I was always considerate and ASKED for a ride, never assuming it was a given. I was never denied.

The only really bad experience was on a DL 767 flt from MCO to ATL. Prior to TOD, the CA had to use the loo, and told me to sit in his seat. I said no more than once until he snapped and yelled at me. So I sat in his seat and just enjoyed the view outside. When he came back, I started to move and he put his hand up and took a seat on the jumpseat. Approaching 10k, I am getting very uneasy when he finally decides to take his seat back. As we trade seats he says "I just thought you should try out the seat since it will be the only time you ever see the left seat of a 767". Yep, zero exaggeration on my part. Years later having chatted with a DL Chief, I learned that I had I been anywhere near the type of person he obviously was, I could have reported him and it would probably have stopped just short of him losing his job, but maybe that too. I wish I had written his name down. After a few minutes of walking through the ATL terminal, I was no longer upset or angry. I just chalked it up to his sad life and the fact that his wife was cheating on him every time he went to work.

I don't, or won't fly on DL anymore, but it is strictly because of the MGMT. JB earned my business treating me like gold as a commuter for years to JFK. It may amount to a bit less than a 1k a year in tickets sales, but that is 1k DL MGMT will not see from me ever. I would rent a car first.

The airline industry is very much like the current state of U.S. Government. The pilots NEED to understand that they, and their unions, run the aviation industry, not MGMT. When all stand together, the suits lose. They can lose little, or in the case of the CMR strike, they can lose big. Do you know how much LESS the life of the CMR contract would have cost than the strike?? It was substantially less, as in tens of millions. I was hired far after the strike, btw.

I have also moved to greener pastures, and I should probably thank DL MGMT for that part at least. Things are far better on this side of the planet than they were in the U.S.

Clear skies and smooth flight to all.

CMR FO/CA/FO 2002-2008

Originally Posted by Pilotguy143

Linky: I-Team: Comair shutting down?