Originally Posted by
Sweatsock
I don't think APA will want to have anything to do with the NIC and here is why:
The NIC list has 2005 hired west pilots senior to 1988 hired east pilots (Not furloughed)
The NIC has 2003 hired west pilots senior to 1987 hired east pilots (never furloughed)
The difference does not get under 10 years till you get to something like the 1985 hired east guys. Most of the not furloughed east list lost at least 8 years of longevity. These numbers do not contain the east pilots that were furloughed in 2005.
180 west pilots were placed above pre 1983 hired east pilots, America west did not fly their first revenue trip till 83
Junior east BUS Captains are 88 hires. All the west F/O's are senior to the 88 Captains per the NIC. That means that the 2005 hired f/o's will slot in as Captains on the list and end up senior to the 1993 hired AA junior md-80 Capt.
Cannot see them supporting your position for that one simple little fact.
Also the age issues:
There are about 1600 west pilots on NIC list. Of those 319 were not even out of high school when the east pilot one number junior to them per NIC was flying jets for this company.
The break down is as follows:
226 were still in high school (15 to 18 yrs old) when the east guy below them was hired at usair
93 were still in grade school (1st thru 8th grade)
14 were 11 years old
5 were 10 years old
7 were nine years old when the east guy one number junior to him was flying a dc-9 or 737 for this company.
Using the NIC list for the AA integration would most likely put EVERY one of those west F/O's senior to that 1993 hired AA MD-80 Capt.
I have the NIC list printed out, everytime I run across a pilot from another carrier that has questions regarding why the east did what it did I give them that list to look at. The reactions range from "Holy ###" to "Good Lord I had no idea, all I have ever heard was the west propaganda version"
So far every AA jumpseater has been floored by what a NIC would mean to them in the integration. The NIC list speaks for it's self, that is why the west posters never want to discuss what is actually on the NIC list...they are just interested talking about how the east has done everything they legally could to negate it.
Well the jumpseat is really not the measuring stick for which decision are made even though pilots feel it is. Pilots think in pilot speak and never in real world business which is why most often we end up with average contracts with most sections missed other than compensation.
In the real world the business people do whats known as the risk vs reward analysis. The business people will weigh that and advise the APA of their options. " They will say things like gentleman, we can risk going to court in this deal but these are the very real outcomes associated with that decision." Does the reward out weigh the risk involved and if it does not then we should not do it.
I have only spoken with a number of APA pilots and in cases none have backed what you have just said. Now should I take those encounters as the gospel?
No entity ever wants to be named in a lawsuit especially when that entity was never part of the original action. The APA loses nothing by forcing that award but they risk being named in a law suit going by not doing it. The DFR is there already but will have a dollar amount attached to it just as with the TWA pilots that sued ALPA but usapa will fail to exist so that would leave the APA open to litigation and why do that?
One more thing, you made claims about 88 hires 83 hire when and where AWA pilots are placed on a list and YOU PERSONALLY CAN NOT SEE HOW APA WOULD SUPPORT THIS. I understand your position because you are biased toward that however I must ask as did the arbitrator Nic, where were these east pilots on their respective lists at the time of the decision?????? Those 88 hires were JR RES FIRST OFFICERS!!! The east feels and has always felt that they should be able to recoup their poor careers at the expense of the west and then the next merger comes along then it would be our turn. The east felt it would be ok to destroy the career expectations of pilots hired at AWA that were upgrading in 7yrs because the AWA pilots could recoup in the next merger. We are at the next merger is it the AWA pilots turn now?????
WD at AWA