Originally Posted by
Wiskey Driver
Well the jumpseat is really not the measuring stick for which decision are made even though pilots feel it is. Pilots think in pilot speak and never in real world business which is why most often we end up with average contracts with most sections missed other than compensation.
In the real world the business people do whats known as the risk vs reward analysis. The business people will weigh that and advise the APA of their options. " They will say things like gentleman, we can risk going to court in this deal but these are the very real outcomes associated with that decision." Does the reward out weigh the risk involved and if it does not then we should not do it.
I have only spoken with a number of APA pilots and in cases none have backed what you have just said. Now should I take those encounters as the gospel?
No entity ever wants to be named in a lawsuit especially when that entity was never part of the original action. The APA loses nothing by forcing that award but they risk being named in a law suit going by not doing it. The DFR is there already but will have a dollar amount attached to it just as with the TWA pilots that sued ALPA but usapa will fail to exist so that would leave the APA open to litigation and why do that?
One more thing, you made claims about 88 hires 83 hire when and where AWA pilots are placed on a list and YOU PERSONALLY CAN NOT SEE HOW APA WOULD SUPPORT THIS. I understand your position because you are biased toward that however I must ask as did the arbitrator Nic, where were these east pilots on their respective lists at the time of the decision?????? Those 88 hires were JR RES FIRST OFFICERS!!! The east feels and has always felt that they should be able to recoup their poor careers at the expense of the west and then the next merger comes along then it would be our turn. The east felt it would be ok to destroy the career expectations of pilots hired at AWA that were upgrading in 7yrs because the AWA pilots could recoup in the next merger. We are at the next merger is it the APA pilots turn now?????
WD at AWA
Your movement was based on growth, which Doug has said many times was at an end. AWA was close to BK it's self (Dougs words)
East movement was based on attrition, which growth had nothing to do with.
Had the west been willing to protect the east attrition we could have avoided removing ALPA from the property and years of this. But NIC saw fit to not only make the newhire west pilots senior to a not furloughed east guy that had been there 17 years, he also tried to give you the east attrition. The west had no measurable attrition to speak of, and to this day still does not. this years attrition is what? About 180 to 200 east guys retiring to about 15 to 20 west?
As it stands both sides has what it brought to the merger in 2005. There is some debate regarding the 190's. But You will not find east pilots that were on the list in 2005 debating that. The fact that the 190 is down to a 10 month Capt. is proof of that.
The only difference is that you were hired at a young airline and don't want to have to wait for your guys to retire to move up. You want your retirements and ours too. AA has their huge retirement push starting in a couple years. You want the NIC tossed in this one also so you can grab their attrition as well. It would be the perfect coup for the west 2003 hired AOL founders....slotted in with mid 80's east pilots and then slotted in with the late 80's to early 90's AA pilots. The epic seniority grab of all time.
A fence protecting attrition could have avoided all this. Had the age 65 not occurred almost half of the active east pilot group would have retired by now or in the next 2 years and the problem would be solved. As it stands the east is down to about 50% of the 2005 list (including the 500 furloughed that came back) by the end of the decade.
East guys are no threat to AA even if it went straight DOH which it wont. East has 800+ over 60 today. 50% of east active group (about 2900 active today including newhires) are gone by the time any reasonable fence will expire.