Originally Posted by Alan Shore

You see the fact that DPA came within a few percentage points of being able to qualify for a vote as tantamount that ALPA would have been decertified? It's that twisted view that makes some of your comments sound like party propaganda.

True on the first count. Delta pilots control DALPA. ALPA serves us in the manner determined by our reps and those of other ALPA pilot groups.

Totally false on the second count.

Total lack of understanding (or deliberate misstatement?) of what went on during the ARC discussions that went on prior to thje regulation that is FAR 117.

ICAO (not A4A) came up with the science based approach. ALPA and A4A were on opposite sides of the discussion of what the FAR should ultimately be, with ALPA wanting even stricter limits than the science called for and A4A wanting fewer.

In the end, neither side got everything they wanted. A4A got an extra hour of block time per duty period, but lost the ability to extend that indefinitely under IROPS. ALPA got shorter duty days with limited extensions requiring PIC concurrence in all cases, and longer rest that is not reducible.

My understanding is that, at Delta, FAR 117 has increased credit time (i.e., required staffing) by a significant amount (not sure what the exact number is). If it takes more pilots to fly the same amount under FAR 117, then each pilot must be flying less under FAR 117. Hardly a "total fail and give" in my book.

Carl, you clearly have a lot of passion for this pilot group and its profession, and you bring up some very good points about what can and should be better. You don't need to be grasping at straws to find a boogeyman around every corner. When you do, it undermines your credibility and lessens your effectiveness at changing the things that truly need our attention.