You're right. I was hired shortly after the original 50/70 deal, but I don't think that deal happened because SKW didn't have a union. If the guys there at the time didn't take that pay some other ALPA carrier would have. Those rates were a fact of life in the short term, post 9/11. And again to be clear. I am not defending mgmt. I just feel that with a union it is like having two mgmt groups. Both are being funded by our (all employees, not just pilots) work. I don't think ALPA can get us 2% better than what we have right now. Look at ASA. I made friends with some of their guys when they still had SLC. Their MEC was promising them that they wouldn't let the base close. Then they were promising that they would get a new contract and retro pay. One of them finally gave up and is a recent hire of SKW after 5 years at ASA. It is disgusting the way ASA pilot have been treated and who knows they may get some great contract. If they do I will admit that I was wrong. What I see happening right now is them losing flying and losing good pilots because most who I have talked to hate being there. I come to work at SKW and most people are happy here. How can ALPA promise that we will be better off with them when we see our peers at ASA being treated worse than we are treated?