SWA and AAI Final outcome
The following post were made by others.
“I have to laugh though because the most senior FO in PHX is a former AT dude who is pretty activein the open time business. I'm certain he's making more than he did as a Capt at AT. He's told guys he's not going to upgrade to Capt at SWA because he's got it better right where he is. (Actually the senior FO's at almost every SWA base now are Former AT Capts). Good for them I say!”
“Ladies and Gentlemen, the Whahmaster.
He want's you believe he's a coiled spring, a crouching tiger, waiting and ready to right an ancient wrong.
When he's really just a festering sociopath who'll never forget that he once lost an argument.” As written by 1seat 1engine
Whacko,
Seriously dude? You are a small little boy -- without a FU%$ing doubt your lifetime careerearnings will be WAY more than had Air Tran stayed a separate airline or been bought out by anyone else. Quit your f'ing whining and move on and quit being such a sour grapes child throwing a temper tantrum over spilt milk. You still have a great job at a hugely profitable airline and make over 200K a year in total compensation. Cry me a f'ing river.
Thunder1 as written by Thunder1
“So, from your perspective it was SWAPA and SWA that conspired to screw you.”
“Exactly how did MY no vote screw YOU, Whack?
You're a sad, confused, delusional little man.” As written by 4th Level
I am truly disappointed. This is how SWA professional airline pilots talk to fellow aviators.
I have reached out and talked to several long-time friends who transitioned over to SWA.
They tell me that the SW pilot forum is exactly the same – venom spewed towards anyone with an opinion. Not a mature, professional difference of opinion but with insults. Is it my mistake to conclude you are Southwest line pilots? It is clear you do not agree with Whackmaster but you start by insulting with his screen name and then you can just read the rest of the insults. Where is your maturity?
One friend looked up the Seniority list of PHX based F/O’s yesterday. 1seat 1engine referenced it and my friend verified it yesterday and said the statement is not true. He said he checked the first 20 names and they are all WN not one transition pilot from AAI.
Here is what I learned from several sources who gave me information.
1. The Process agreement was signed in April of 2011. The day after the signing the entire Southwest pilot group was privy to the facts. ONLY A NEGOTIATED DEAL WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED by Southwest Airlines. If the AAI pilots would not agree to a negotiated deal with SWA / SWAPA and tried Mediation or Arbitration - AirTran would be operated separately until all the planes were transferred or sold and the AAI pilots would lose their careers.
2. AirTran had over approx. 900 Captains. All lost their CA status/seat (even if only for 3-4 months. They all had to go thru new hire training as F/O then some could go thru upgrade training again.
3. Several of my friends contacted me with info after verifying with other AAI pilots. This was the break down. The top guys lost about 15 % relative seniority. Captains who had been with AirTran approximately 12-14 years lost 30 % relative seniority. They went from bidding approximately 13% - 20 % as a Captain. They lost on average about 30 thousand dollars annually. They lost their Captain seat when many had been Captains for 10 - 14 years !
4. It is true, some guys can bid back and some have begun BUT, BUT they are now bidding at between 40 -45 % with a terrible QOL for the family compared to what they had. I think many here will agree that Family is more important than the money. Especially, when you were already around 180k – 210k as an AAI CA. So their hard decision is upgrade again, move the family or commute.
5. The money. Yes, the pay rates are higher at SWA. That is a fact. But, many SWA pilots seem to not be informed. They tend to argue about the pay rates the AAI guys were given after the deal. Here is a fact – Do these same SWA pilots know what the rates were in 2007 that the AAI turned down because they were trying to defend the profession. A profession which was riddled with BK contracts at all the majors. Hint for you – They were essentially the same they got in 2011/12.
6. Overall, the AAI first officers were given raises. They lost seniority but the pay raise for them was better and the seat did not change. The Senior Captains get their seat back and a pay raise. No big difference in what choice of line or vacations they can hold again. To go from 1% relative seniority to 15% is not a huge deal. The group that got the worst – the next group of Captains. They lost their seat. They lost 30 % in relative seniority. They took pay cuts for 1-2 years of about 30k on average. They must make a big QOL choice to be a Captain again. Commute, Move, Vacation week, line of flying a lot poorer, to be on reserve for a pay raise. Or deal with a new life in the right seat (and everything we are familiar with in that seat). Over Half the AAI Captains will never make Captain again because they lost so many years and Relative Seniority. Q. Why are pilots not allowed to just drop a trip into open time?
7. Of the over 900 AirTran Captains – approx. 500 will never be able to get their Captain seat again. The others lost so much seniority – they will retire before being able to bid CA again. Or as many arrogant SWA pilots have said “you can always quit and go somewhere else.
So the AAI pilots never had a chance. SWA pilot union had assurances from SWA that they would never implement a list that came from Mediation or Arbitration. It was shared with the SWA pilot group the day after the signing of the Process Agreement.
I understand the anger by so many. My friends tell me they are trying to move on but will never recover. They read the SWA pilot forum and that it is many times filled with insults about the former AAI pilot group. How is that even allowed? Talk about kick the horse who was knocked down in the mouth. The favorite term is FAT pilots. They hear it from everywhere they interact at work. Digs and insults. F/A’s after the trip. Gate agents when trying to commute or DH. How lucky they must feel about their huge raises. That seems to be the only thing that is important in the “Culture” at SWA. They preach “have fun” and “golden rule” but I doubt very seriously that if SWA pilots were treated how the AAI pilots were and are treated in another acquisition -
Well, the post above I think say it all. What an environment to work. I have given a few rides and heard the comments from just a few SWA guys over the last few years. I thought they were the exception. I read the post on this site. Many just like them. Just read the quotes I put at the top of this post - I pulled off this site. I hear the stories from those over there - what a group. No shame.
Last edited by Brakes Set; 05-05-2015 at 02:48 PM.