Originally Posted by
Brakes Set
Several SWA pilots have mentioned the young age of AirTran Captains as one reason they intimidated AAI pilots to accept seniority loss. Another false statement is the SWA pilots did not get anything out of the deal. The numbers tell a different story.
When the purchase of AAI was announced at the end of Sept. 2010 - SW had not hired in 2 years. The last SW pilot class was Sept. 2008.
The most junior Captain at AirTran was placed near this group with a class DOH of APR 2008. Those SWA pilots were at 95% on THEIR seniority list for 2 years and no hiring when the purchase was announced. The pilot forced in front of the Junior Captain went instantly from 95% to 82 % - significant movement on a list against furlough for a major airline.
The Number one pilot at AAI out of approx. 1750 was hired in 9 / 1993. He was 62 and the SWA group around him were avg. 54 years old. The guy in front of him on the day of snapshot - number 1,345 22.87 % and instantly went to 17.17 % with a DOH AUG 1995. SW pilot list changed from 5,880 to 7,834 pilots.
In increments of 50, the first 300 AirTran Captains for the data.
AAI Ca., -------- His % on AAI list , -------- AVG. AGE of 50 prior to them ,------------ DOH
# 50 ---------3.3 % ------- 56 -------- 5/95
#100-------- 6.6 % ------- 56 --------- 2/97
#150 -------10.0 % -------- 51 --------- 4/98
#200------- 13.0 % -------- 44 ---------- 4/99
#250 -------16.3 % -------- 44 --------- 12/99
#300------- 19.7 % -------- 44 ---------- 7/00
Who were these particular AAI Captains placed directly behind, what did that SWA pilot have at the Snapshot and what did the SWA Captains gain?
AAI # behind SWA pilot # --- SWA pilot was list % --- DOH ---- SWA pilot became Seniority % after merge,
#50 was put behind 1782 ------- 30.31 % -------- 12/97 -------- SWA pilot went to 30.16 %
#100 behind 2258 ---------------- 38.4 % -------- 7/99 ----------------------- 36.1 %
#150 behind 2671 ---------------- 45.43 % -------- 8/00 ----------------------- 41.49 %
#200 behind 3044 ---------------- 51.77 % -------- 5/01 ----------------------- 46.82 %
#250 behind 3405 ---------------- 57.91 % -------- 3/02 ----------------------- 51.93 %
#300 behind 3750 ---------------- 63.78 % -------- 4/2004 ----------------------- 52.23 %
AAI Captain went from 3.3 % and placed with a SWA Captain who was bidding 30.1 %. The #150 AAI Captain was used to bidding at 10 % and was placed behind a SWA Captain who was used to bidding 45.43 % (reserve ?). etc...
A Captain who was bidding in the top 16 - 20 % at AirTran was placed behind SWA pilots who were not Captains yet and hired 3 and 4 years after their DOH. Hiring had stopped for 2 years at SWA. They were put with SWA pilots who were bidding 57 -64 % !
This was just the first 300 of the 815 AirTran Captains on the day of the snapshot. They will in theory be able to bid back eventually. A few hundred will not be able to ever hold Captain again before retiring.
Originally Posted by
Brakes Set
What is your deal. Now your beginning to show your true self - just like several other SW pilots on the threads.
A SW pilot makes a statement - just words or opinions. Several of us go actually check it out. It is false. I state the fact and back it up with the information and the source.
You then just say you don't believe it. For instance, I talk about the threats. You say they were not true. I state where they came from and you still say that is FALSE. I go further with the DATE of the CALL. How long it was, how many participated and specific Questions and ANSWERS and you change your tune. You don't focus on the facts , instead you go into your tirade about how that call was private, how did I become privy to it, etc..... You just deny and don't answer. Before, I was making stuff up. Then, your memory came ?
Some other SW guy spouts off about the number one F/O in PHX , former AirTran , not going to upgrade, etc.....Some guys log on and check the F/O list in PHX. BS. They verified the first 20 and stopped. ALL original WN. Then he said what - that is what he had heard someone say? Oh, ok. Some other guy comes along and all he has to contribute is insults and tries to guess my actual identity - followed by more insults. Nothing to contribute except to show his maturity level. A SW guy talks about holding up his lighter for the guy. LOL. Great display of judgment.
You spout off about age being a factor of Relative Seniority. Must be a SW pilot thing coined for just them (is that a little like the Triple Crown Award)? Guys pull the Snapshot list of AirTran. Took 50 at a time beginning with the number 1 guy and did the first 300. I wrote what the results were of their actual age and then compared the AGES and DOH of 1. Who they were placed behind and 2. What the average age of the groups they were put between. Another BS statement made by SW pilots that was proven to be false.
And all you can do is say, no - I don't believe that. You act like a politician. Are you one of their union leaders?
You have no credibility anymore. Again, all you seem to do is hold the line of pride and deny/deflect. Is it you just don't want to really know what your group and airline actually did again to fellow aviators in your profession. You should just watch and learn from some of the others on these threads and see how it is done with factual information - not opinion to just keep the same old tired false statements going.
If you want to make more false statements, feel free.
Good day.
You made a statement that a more fair method for SLI would have been a relative seniority integration because everyone would be inserted where they were before and no one would be harmed. You stated:
"Relative does not effect anyone. Well, ok. If your number 1 at SWA and number 1 at AAI. there can only be 1 number 1. So the AAI pilot is now number 2. If your used to bidding so many lines - you will still be bidding so many lines. It is all relative. Each has a number of pilots for each airplane. "
I told you you were full of it and explained in explicit detail how the younger average age of AT pilots would actually be extremely detrimental to SWA pilots seniority to which you responded:
"SHOELU sir, I concede. You got me on this. It is hard for me to debate when I am not grasping fully your information in regards to the age of each pilot group.
I don't know how to explain it and so I probably should not attempt. As you can see at my age - I have a hard time typing without first, posting. Then read and find errors that I must go back and edit. Everytime. Frustrating for me."
You then attempted to make a point about the ages and dates of hire of former AT pilots and where they were inserted in a list that DID NOT USE RELATIVE SENIORITY as the metric for the integration. There is no correlation because the way the list actually WAS put together was to counter the detrimental effects of the younger AirTran group to the original SWA pilots on the list.
You keep mentioning the seniority bump that came to SWA pilots in this integration and yes there was some increased seniority awarded but in the vast majority of cases that increase was to counteract younger pilots being placed in front of SW pilots on the list. My seniority was bumped and each and every point of that increase is eroded every day until the time of my retirement where I end up within one tenth of a percentage point in relative seniority to where I would have ended up with out the AirTran acquisition.