[QUOTE=Brakes Set;1888665]First, I would not say the phone call was informal. Your early post to me sounded as though you were upset that I was talking about the phone call. In fact, I stated you were trying to be a little intimidating into possibly scaring me from discussing it further. It was a phone call set up for all SWAPA pilots to call in, as you said and give the special access codes, ask the SWAPA NC committee questions of concern.
Reading all of your post and now your most recent – I would almost guess you might be one of those SWAPA union leaders or possibly on the NC. Identity is not important.
Shoelu, do you think an Arbitrated list would have been implemented by SWA if it was considered onerous by SWAPA ?
ANWER BY SHOELU - Any arbitrated list would most definitely have been implemented by Southwest Airlines, there was no other legal option.
Is there anyone who does not know the big (not the only) reason why SWA set up the holding company to buy AirTran. The DAL pilot who expressed concern about the Process Agreement and the leverage lost by SWA and SWAPA. It was specific. It stated about lost leverage to accept an arbitrated list and get a SOC. Your NC chair stated that would be a list that Southwest Airlines has the choice to implement. He goes on to talk about how the implementation schedule that goes with an award MAY BE NO EARLIER THAN NMB DETERMINES SOC. He reiterates - Quote – because number 1 and you can take this to the bank SWA will protect its culture, THEY HAVE TOLD US THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
Several questions about this same worry – an arbitrated list.
A lot of the call was worried about what the Process Agreement said and if AirTran pilots held out for an arbitrated award and what the SWAPA CBA said. An example; SWAPA NC ask the pilot when does the CBA apply to ALPA side - The NC becomes very coy, (when the pilot stated on our list) aahhhhh, there is no implementation schedule.
Like I said, it is over and over – direct questions by the pilots worried about an arbitrated award. It is over and over the SWAPA NC conveying to them like above. Using assurances. When one pilot ask the NC where does SWA loyalty lay - 2 NC members answered because they want to convey the point to everyone.
One NC member said to look at the document put out the day before to the pilots. He read it and it talked about IF IT GOES TO ARBITRATION – The NC member reiterated, an implementation process will have to be negotiated. The only parties to do that are SWA and SWAPA ONLY !!! The list is just a piece of paper. Then, the other NC member jumps in to reiterate. WE HAVE THEIR EAR. THEY TOLD US THEY AGREE ABOUT OUR CONCERNS. THEY SAID WE HAVE THEIR FULL SUPPORT ETC…..HE TALKS ABOUT HOW HE HAS MEETING PERSONALLY WITH THEM AND THERE IS NO MORE HE COULD POSSIBLY SAY !!!!
Many more examples. Along with testimony under oath by attorneys. Recorded by a court reporter. The threats were made. They were discussed in very great detail. They are available to the public. I think the readers get it. Shoelu – deny all you want. Paste from your CBA all you want – it meant nothing back then. I think those with an open mind get it. I am done with this point.
Shoulu, tell me where in the Process Agreement, that everyone signed, when would your CBA apply to the AirTran Pilots?
ANSWER BY SHOELU - (c) If the Merger Committees (subject to applicable governance provisions of SWAPA and ALPA, respectively) reach a complete agreement regarding the integration of their respective seniority lists (whether during negotiations, mediation, or arbitration), it shall be accepted by Southwest.
You pasted this from the Process Agreement. How ironic. It was asked on the phone call as a direct question to the NC. The chairman answered it meant a vote for you (SWAPA) and how they (SWAPA,SWA) spelled out it’s a vote for them –ONLY OF A NEGOTIATED LIST meaning not an arbitrator award !!!
That exact paragraph gave a lot of the pilots angst about the process agreement and an arbitrators award which led to the very poignant questions, followed by the repeated assurances by SWAPA NC that if it went to arbitration – what that meant. NO IMPLEMENTATION OF AirTran pilots.
Shoulu, tell me where in the Process Agreement, that everyone signed, when would your CBA apply to the AirTran Pilots?
ANSWER BY SHOELU -The date a single collective bargaining representative is recognized as the sole bargaining agent for the combined craft and class, in accordance with the RLA; and
ii. The issuance date of an FAA Single Operating Certificate
EXACTLY. Whalah. Think Guadalupe.
WRITTEN BY SHOELU - I've been answering your questions all along and backing them up with verifiable contractual language that supports my claims. You just don't like the answers because they refute your bogus narrative. These aren't my opinions, they are the agreed upon and enforceable contractual stipulations.
You on the other hand are basing all of your opinions on an unenforceable, informal union meeting that took place over the telephone. None of the OPiNIONS voiced there are legally binding in any way shape or form. The contractual language IS legally binding and enforceable. The opinions voiced on that call were informal opinions. No one ever stated there was a verbal or written contract between SWAPA and SWA not to implement an arbitrated award. Union leadership was very careful in choosing their words to not convey any definitive statements. There were several possible potential outcomes discussed none of which were ever misrepresented as "sure things", but simply possible potential outcomes going forward.
Me.
First, I guess you are not aware of case law when it comes to what people say, while in a position of leadership. Secondly, I would hardly describe a phone call between 5,880 pilots with the entire SWAPA NC and others) informal.
I think your statement - “Union leadership was very careful in choosing their words to not convey any definitive statements. “
This tells it all. During that call – the SWAPA NC leader was attempted to say something very damning. He called the pilot “out” on that very fact and then said he was not going to answer. After a long pause of silence – he then said “I’m smiling”. Oh , I am not saying (hint, hint) -ya, right.
It was like that several times during the 1 hour 40 minute plus phone call. It reminded me of something we all can probably relate to , ie; the instructor at the front of the room. Not allowed to tell you something – HE STOMPS HIS FEET. It is like so many times when someone knows the secret and is excited to tell someone.
I am done. I made my point about the phone call. I think everyone can make up their own mind.[/QUOTE
By the Oscar,
Are you really done BS? I for one think you can't stop. Oh and please tell me you did not say you were a Marine. This AT/SWA thing is over. Time to accept it. Those that wish to rehash the past will live there. Good luck.
The Oscar