Originally Posted by
NineGturn
Both of you seem to have missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about qualifications and minimum hiring experience...I didn't even mention it. I'm talking about how much experience is needed as a first officer before becoming a captain.
24/48...the way you responded to my statement it seems you are saying that it only takes 6-12 months of being a copilot before being qualified to be a captain regardless of previous experience!!? That's a bit insane.
I understand that modern jet airliners are designed to be idiot proof and don't require nearly as much skill to fly as the job used to require but 6-12 months?
My point is that a large jet is a large jet is a large jet when it comes to the level of skill and experience needed to fly it. Yes it's possible to take a low time pilot and make them a captain in a few years and it doesn't matter if it's a EMB-175 or a B-787...you can teach a reasonably capable pilot to fly just about any modern airliner...the size doesn't have much to do with it.
As deltajuliet pointed out, I was merely referring to 6-12 months of 121 time is sufficient to perform duties as an FO regardless of the size of the aircraft, regional or mainline.
Originally Posted by
NineGturn
My point is to ask the question.... do you really want to?
Which point? Huh?........sorry couldn't resist
In all seriousness, the screening process at the regional level leaves a lot to be desired. At mainline, the screening is a lot more stringent, and not as many "bad apples" get through, but we still have our douche bags, most are scabs that stole their jobs or former Skywest pilots.
Either way, everyone learns and absorbs the necessary skill set to do the job at different rates. I remember a designated examiner I used all the time as a CFI that got hired at CAL around the same time as me and he struggled in training. In fact, I don't think he made it. Meanwhile, some of the 2500TT/0TPIC XJT kids were smoking through training without issue.
Originally Posted by
NineGturn
Theoretically, an airline needs almost as many co pilots as captains to fill a schedule...not accounting for modest industry growth and fluctuations in the hiring and retirement ages of pilots, a typical airline will hire a first officer and that average first officer will spend almost the first half of their entire career as a co pilot, gaining valuable experience before the position of captain is available.
An international airline, like all US majors carry more FO's than Captains. For instance, at UAL the IAH 777 base has just over 50 CA's and about 110 FO's. Since we augment on every fleet except the Airbus, we have more FO's.
Originally Posted by
NineGturn
This is what seniority was designed for...this was how it was supposed to work and this is the way it used to work. The problem is that it doesn't work this way any more and we have a system of "regionals" which are in fact full scale large national airlines that cover schedules coast to coast flying large jets that used to be flown by the mainline. Commuter airlines don't really even exist anymore (there are a very few left and they're slowly dying).
The so called "regionals" are putting low time captains in the left seat with very little career experience....They are earning wages that aren't even as good in many cases as the first officers on mainline fleets.
Seniority is a tool perpetuated by the unions and used by big airline management to disrupt the natural flow of experience and put low paid and (mostly) low time pilots in the left seats of half the flights in the US while much higher time pilots (again generally speaking) often with many years experience as large jet captains will wallow in the right seat of Boeing and Airbus jets at higher (but still artificially low) pay.
It's a total waste of experience and an inefficient distribution of the available talent in the US. But...it saves millions of dollars in labor costs at the expense of pilots.
To your point about seniority, etc. Are you saying that you would prefer a merit based system? If so, just look around the forum and you can read the passion of airline pilots. We are all A types willing to do what it takes to achieve a goal. A merit based system is ripe for manipulation by both management and the pilot. Favorites will be played and at the end of the day it still won't be the most qualified individual using the tiller.
Not sure what your background is, but you come across as a senior RJ Captain that wouldn't/couldn't make the leap to first year FO pay at a major. Meanwhile, many of the folks who pulled gear for you are flying made the sacrifice to go to mainline and it just chaps you a bit.