Originally Posted by aa73

Recalling John Darrah and Ed White would have simply put someone else in charge who would have done the same exact thing. What you don't understand - since you weren't on AA property when this went down - was that the TWA integration was pretty much concocted and carved in stone from day one between APA, AA and the arbitrator (facilitator) who was the same guy that did the OZ deal in '86.

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If it was carved in stone from day one, doesn't that contradict what you said below about how the APA got irked, yaddah yaddah. The part you mentioned below is an untruth. Like you said above, SUPP CC was concocted once Don Carty gave John Darrah the green light to bulldoze the TWA pilots.


Exactly - and had you not recalled those TWA pilots who wanted to sign, you would have ended up with a FAR better deal than what you got.

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I'm not sure I can believe this. Although speculation on your part. If we had signed, we would have had no recourse both legally and legislatively. Unlike, the Ozark group who later sued TWA, the judge in their case said they had a good case, but his hands were tied since they signed on the dotted line. If we did sign, we would have all been stapled and the reward back in early 2001 would have been a no-furlough clause. When the new contract was signed in the Spring of 2003', the AMR insisted on a 33% paycut (can you imagine what that will do to a 777 Capts paycheck), and few furloughes. The APA countered with a 23% paycut and furloughes to make up the difference.

We saw no such thing. This is pure fabrication. We saw an exact repeat of what AMR has done in the past: buy an airline, sell all the airplanes and routes, and keep the employees. 9/11 took care of BOTH our AND your employees, but they are now getting recalled. Meanwhile, we've dumped almost the aircraft and most of the routes - wow, great assets we ended up with. Not.

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Nearly 90 of the 186 TWA airplanes are still flying today in the AMR fleet. Prior to the furloughes, TWA had 24,000 employees, today approx 1750 employees remain..less than 10%. Of the 2400 TWA pilots nearly 1900 were furloughed--80% . On the NAAtive side, only 10% of the pilots were furloughed. AirCal, on the other hand got DOH when they merged with AMR and so did TransCarib.


As well as ALPA, and any other union that has screwed another pilot group in the past. Cmon, FF... this is not unique to the APA.

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I will conced 73, yes ALPA did screw us also and we are in litigation with them. There are unions out there that don't take pride in screwing the people they represent. But before ALPA sold us down the river, they did propse the Tannan Proposal to the APA-basically our widebody Capts would be integrated after ALL your widebody Capts. Our narrowbody Capts would be placed on the seniority list after all your narrowbody Capts, and on and on through the F/O ranks. In addition there would have been a 5 year fence off of all AMR's equipment that TWA did not possess (A300/MD11/777).


We pay dues to our union to properly represent us as well as getting us a decent contract. There is some stuff that we have no control over. Mergers/acuisitions are one of them. Just ask the AWA/USAir boys and you'll see they had absolutely no influence as well.

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USAir pilots asked for arbritation. United and Delta pilots both negotiated good contracts in the late 90s. We never signed the integration and recalled those who wanted to..yes you do have a voice in your union.


No doubt. But it's crazy at any airline, not just AA.

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It's not crazy delivering boxes at UPS. At the commuter level we went through a merger and it was civilized not the gang bang that you guys did to us. So it's not crazy everywhere, just when you're being led by a bunch of crazies.

73