Originally Posted by
Eric Stratton
You are correct I don't think the majors will EVER get the airplanes given up back. It would be nice if it happened though. Why bring it up like 1900 did, because the majors continue to give up larger and more airplanes reducing future jobs at the majors.
The point of bringing it up, complaining or yapping as you call it is this. You claim to know all of the problems, regional pay/work rules, size, scope, whipsawing and that I am preaching to the choir. Then why in your first post you tell 1900 and I quote "But, don't act like we messed it up for you. We messed it up for ourselves, you are not even here (yet)." 1900 can't even get the the "yet" part because the majors continue giving away bigger and more airplanes. I would have thought the majors learned their lesson with the 50 seaters and yet they gave up 70 seaters. That's why I bring it up so that it doesn't become 100 seaters the next time around.
Now back to top gun analogies. You just explained why things keep getting worse and worse with scope. No ones talking about the ramifications of what's happened in the past. According to you there is no reason to talk about it because it is over. Why do we debrief after sim sessions, have crm classes or talk about accidents. We do that so we learn for our mistakes. We talk about them after the fact.
I'm right there with you about all the flying should be done for the parent airline.
My solution is this, we talk about it so that it doesn't happen again and again. Delta prior to 9-11 on their last contract gave up 70 seaters so that they could get the united contract. They threw the 70 seaters under the bus because they (the current pilots) wouldn't be flying them only the new ones. This is according to my delta buddies. I want to make sure this doesn't happen again for a quick pay day because we all know that delta has lost their pay as well as those 70 seaters.
Eric,
I think we are running out of debatable issues. The point I was trying to make is that there is a certain way to do things and a certain way not to do things.
Complaining to a group of people that you one day might want to work for is not a good way to ever work there. I understand your point about not getting to the "majors" because scope is being given away, but unless you are bringing good ideals to fix the situation, I do consider it to be "yapping."
We do have de-brief sessions after sims, CRM, and things like that. But, they are not very productive if they are not conducted with respect.
Imagine after you finished a flight how you would feel if a passenger approached you, in an accusatory way, in front of everyone and asked you why you slammed on the breaks when you exited the runway. Something like, "Hey Captain, why'd you slam on the breaks?"
I'm sure you would feel like he should have found a different way to approach you. There is a way to do things and CRM teaches you to do them with respect. You get better results that way.
As far as my statement that we didn't mess things up for you, we messed it up for ourselves, I stand by it. I think though that you took it out of context. I was not saying that the scope we gave up didn't mess things up for the reigonal pilots. What I was saying is that we screwed ourselves first. We are the ones who got, furloughed and displaced.
My point to 1900, and I guess to you, was that it was rude to act like his boat was the only ship in the ocean. Other people were affected by this crappy contract, too. Most of them had concerns like how they were going to pay the bills after being furloughed or taking a 40% pay cut. Imagine how a furloughed pilot would feel after reading 1900's post when he just got back.
Im sure in his mind he/she would say I got furloughed for 5 years and had to go back to being a FO on the RJ for $15,000 a year and this kid is complaining that he has to wait a little longer to get to the majors. Please.
So anyway, it's September 11th and the last thing I want to do is debate another pilot about how crappy our industry has gotten.
Maybe we can pick up again on Wednesday.
