Originally Posted by
Sluggo_63
Good. That means people are bidding for and being awarded a training slot when they want, rather than when the company wants you to go and then it being changed three or more times. Under the old system, how many people went to training in the slot that they were originally scheduled after the vacancy bid? I’m thinking that number was in the single digits. We should hope that nobody gets SDP. That means that the bid-for-training is working and people are going when they choose to go (seniority dependent, of course). I’ll take the new bid-for-training/SDP system over the old “here’s your training date, make your life plans; sorry... here’s your new training date, rearrange your plans; sorry... here’s your new, new training date, make new, new plans...” system. Definitely a CBA win for me.
Originally Posted by
MEMFO4Ever
This. Seniority based system of bidding for training is what we asked for and what was delivered. Company denies your seniority driven ability to go to school, then they have to pay based on the seat differential. Still do not see how anyone thinks this was not a gain. Unless we are back to wanting to dictate to the corporation when they train and how they staff their airline.
Maybe it is because I never got a ticket on the Passover gravy train, but I will take this system over the old way every time. That being said, my final ITU was years ago and my date was moved 3 times a total of 17 weeks.
Originally Posted by
Sluggo_63
Do they? You’re upgrading from WB FO to NB Capt. That’s a pay difference of $42.07/hour (at year 12 pay). In a nominal 4-week, 72 hour month, that’s a $3,029 difference, or $3,575 in an 85 hour, 5-week month. You should be getting around $3,710 in SDP. Where’s the loss? Especially since you’ll get SDP now. Immediately. Instead of when the junior guy who started training this month ahead of you gets activated in his seat 4 months from now, which is when you would have started POP under the old contract. How again is this a loss?
You don't know what you don't know.
How is SDP a huge giveback? When you are on SDP, you get paid at your current seat rate plus the SDP. POP paid
everything at the future higher paying seat rate to include vacation buyback, 401k contributions, continual training pay, office work, or draft/overages. With the new system, all of those extra pay provisions are paid at the current or lower seat rate. This is a biggie.
For those of us who were stuck for years on the 757 waiting to upgrade (because of the lack of sims, FAA type rating issue, and combining/separating the bid packs etc.etc.), we made a lot more money than what we would have on SDP.
On my last year on the 757, I made more money than some of the Captains I flew with (getting draft, selling vacation, being bought off my trip for training/ITU). I easily made a high five. A friend made $335,000!!! I calculated that had I been on SDP, I would have lost at least $45,000. And that doesn't count the difference in 401k contributions. Not many people can claim high fives while being on the lowest paying seat in the company. I can. Yes, SDP is a huge giveback.
Myth ... we get to pick when we want to go to training and we can plan vacation around it. News alert: NO YOU CAN'T. All you know is that you are X out of Y people given the same award. Your seniority compared to the others is Z%. You can't possibly predict what the people above you are going to bid. But remember ...
You are still at the company's discretion when you'll go to training. You are BIDDING on training. That isn't a guarantee. Just because you are senior to a bunch of people with the same award, that does not guarantee you will go to ITU when you want.
In my real world example, the pilots beneath you may be stuck in a undermanned seat and the company needs you to go first. So they slot denial them and inverse assign you. Determining when you'll go to training is a crap shoot especially if you aren't the very senior bubbas at the top. At least with the training letter there was a plan. Yeah it moved, was unpredictable, but it was a plan. Now we have no plan, just guesses.
We also didn't get small bids which is what we wanted. We still have these large system bids which take a year or more to train. What many of us thought we were getting was a system like what other airlines have where the company posts monthly what ITU slots are available. There is no "award" bid. Should you be senior enough to win a bid to train for the following month, you convert and start training the next month. It effectively combines our award and training bid processes into one simple step. If you have important life events next month, don't bid to go to ITU next month. Simple.
So, in the end, we lost POP which made a lot of people rich. We still have big bids which take a year or more to train. And in my opinion, you have LESS control over when you go to training unless you are the super senior.
Since we lost POP, instructors or LCAs who were awarded a higher paying seat now get SDP for 24 months (it's called CIPPA actually). After 24 months, the contract language dictates that you SHALL be released from training/LCA and enter the ITU bidding process. No word yet on how that is going to affect training staffing .. but nonetheless, a huge giveback. I think the company did this to help get what they really want, professional instructors and return all of us back to the line.