Originally Posted by
Excargodog
The usual method. You grandfather the senior people and offer to INCREASE the flow for THEM and they sell out the junior people. You get 51% yes. It’s done all the time. Look at the pay for newbies at Sunny, Allegiant, Frontier, Spirit... Newbie pay is less than $60 an hour. At UPS it’s $46 an hour.
Senior pilots sell out the junior pilots all the time. It’s scarcely a new idea.
Who is "you"? Envoy management? AA management? Why would they want to increase the flow to do that? You don't just have to convince 51% of pilots, you have to convince all 3 parties to change the contract.
The only reason they have the flow is as a recruiting tool. If you dilute it for new hires you lose it for that. Then you have to pay even more. Why would both AA management and envoy management agree to that? They just assume that bad pilots will be weeded out by training, plus Envoy is very quick to fire pilots.
And those 51% of pilots who will supposedly agree to a short term increase in the flow would be trading for language that says what? There is already future flow agreement language (after the protected pilots agreement) that says that flow is conditional on disciplinary records. Every envoy pilot who has been there long enough knows that management uses this to push pilots in many ways, from punishing fatigue calls to violating the contract. Everything you do to stick up for yourself is subject to disciplinary action. Why would 51% of pilots voluntarily give even worse language to a management team they don't trust? It was a few years ago but management came to us once and offered 25 new aircraft in exchange for a B scale (technically a C scale, since regionals are already a B scale), and we told them to pound sand.
Envoy pilots hate their management and vice versa. I don't necessarily disagree with the OP's sentiments, but it is a fantasy that AA pilots could wave their wands and get envoy management to give up on a free recruitment tool, get AA management to threaten staffing at one of their regionals, and get pilots to screw their coworkers, all with agreed upon language with a management team they actively hate. As we used to say at Envoy when I was there, the best thing Envoy had going for it was a contractual plan to escape.