With the 2 layovers (JFK/SEA), he's talking about the 4 day pairings with long layovers that only touch 3 duty periods where the rigs kick in. You surely remember those horrible "3 day" OGG trips from SFO that went so junior where you'd fly from SFO on day 1 at 6pm, have a 23:50 layover, and do the redeye back to land at 6am on day 3 for 11 hours credit. This is the same thing..it's why ADG plus MDG, among other things is so important in where we lag