Originally Posted by
JUNEBUG82
Those of you who are resorting to attacking me personally, you're only highlighting the weakness of your position and your inability to defend it. If you don't like what I'm saying, then dispute it with something relevant to the discussion. I've simply asked a few relevant questions and shared a few thoughts in a respectful way. And the response from some has been to say I am a fool, I am a management plant, I cut the line, I haven't paid my dues, I don't get it, I haven't been furloughed enough times, I am divisive, I am inexperienced. You all are making yourselves and our profession look bad with this behavior. How can we expect to be respected if we can't even demonstrate the ability to have a respectful discussion like adults.
Also, nobody is required to work for a specific employer, see X amount of furloughs or have X amount of fight hours to earn the right to share an opinion or ask a sincere question on a public message board (although if I shared my resume the he-cut-the-line crowd would be disappointed). And those who seem to know so much about Aviate, please reach out to me on PM if you are sincerely interested in what Aviate actually is. There is obviously a serious misunderstanding about the program, and I am happy to chat with anyone who is interested in the truth about it.
Thanks to all who have answered my questions and shared your own personal perspectives on this topic. There are clearly some deeply-held and emotional opinions about this, and I can understand why given the history. Regardless of how this specific issue ends up playing out, I wish you all the best and pray these dark times are over sooner than we all expect.
I didn't attack you - I simply added context to your position. If you'll notice my profile lists my position - EWR 320 Captain. Part of the problem with anonymous forums like this we miss this context if it's not shared. Frankly your opinion and views mean jack shti since you're not a United pilot and you won't get a vote if a TA is presented.
I hope the big asterisk I put next to your name helps others assess your inputs. As to your moral curiosity I will simply tell you this. Before you dip your toe into an issue it's a good idea to understand what you're talking about. If you want to offer an opinion on how some other pilot group can 'change' their contract - you should go look at and LEARN that contract. Anything less makes your musings even more meaningless. FWIW, I think it's even more egregious that UNITED PILOTS posting here apparently haven't bothered to open our contract and look at the very things they're advocating changing.
Regarding Aviate, it's a management program at this point so I don't really have much concern about it. It's intended to provide a pipeline of pilots in the future. When you show up in new hire class you'll be welcomed as a United pilot.
It's not the fact that you haven't been furloughed that leads me to disregard your lobbying. I was hired by United in Jan 97 and have never been furloughed. The difference is that I EXPERIENCED the labor/management dynamic, I LISTENED to people who had more experience, I've seen firsthand how management treats agreements with our pilot group, and I DON'T PRETEND to be smarter than everyone else on the forum. You simply don't know the culture of United Airlines and so far you seem aggressively determined to NOT LEARN IT from those who do. I hope your personality doesn't mirror what I get from you here because you will rub a LOT of us the wrong way.
I'll entertain you for a minute. Here's how it works. Right now our ALPA reps and designated committee members are interacting with management representatives to either consider management requests, offer ideas of our own, or both. It is only during this process that we (ALPA) will learn what agreements the company is willing to make. Foot stomper - this is the CRITICAL ISSUE. If the company is willing to make an acceptable agreement then it will presented to the MEC for a vote to see if they accept the agreement. They will then vote on whether it should go to member ratification (~materially affects pay or working conditions~). Only then will we be able to decide whether we (Active United pilots) will agree or not. Everything up to that point is, well, pointless. It's mental, typed, public masturbation. Only when an agreement is put before the membership is it appropriate to debate the pros/cons, details, pitfalls, etc... The deal is done at that point and can't be changed by the company. Right now any discussion could possible shape the conditions and terms of a companies proposal.
The correct way for a pilot to shape the ALPA position is to CONTACT YOUR LEC OFFICERS since COVID is preventing council meetings/resolutions. I've contacted my rep by phone, text, and email and have shared my thoughts. Every United pilot should do the same. We've been asked by our MEC to not negotiate in public (which is what is going on here), but pilots who know better still won't stop. You don't know better since you didn't get an email from the UAL MEC for obvious reasons. Myself and others have tried to politely explain this to you, but you still resist.