Originally Posted by
rickair7777
Not that easy. There's nothing that says you *cannot* log total time of any sort, FAA doesn't care what you put in your book, only how you use it WRT aeronautical experience or currency requirements.
A logbook is a legal document. There are numerous cases in which the act of doing something is not illegal, but the act of logging it is. A private pilot ma not act for compensation or hire, for example. The private pilot performs a service, takes no payment for the service, and only logs the time. The FAA has determined that the logging of time has intrinsic value and is thus compensation. Logging of time has ramification for recording experience toward any certificate or rating, as well as recency of experience, and falsification of a logbook likewise carries penalties up to and including revocation or suspension of pilot certification and/or privilege.
Yes, one can log time in purple airplanes, log time in passenger seat 9E of a 737 flying overhead while one is eating a chilli dog in a pink convertible while double parked against traffic on fifth avenue on the third Tuesday in May, or time spent thinking of the letter Q. Let's not pretend ignorance nor stupidity, however. We're talking about logging pilot time, and the regulation is clear on logging pilot time. If one is going to take the trouble to ask if one can log the time, setting aside the stupidity of wildly logging anything and everything with zero basis or legal definition, let's constrain ourselves to the act of making a legal, appropriate log entry. There's no such basis for logging total time in an aircraft for which one is not rated, when it is neither PIC nor SIC, nor instruction received.
[QUOTE=rickair7777;3336101
Also for example safety pilot is not PIC, SIC, solo, or dual received (is a "required crewmember").
[/QUOTE]
"Safety pilot" is not a category of logged time. Simply put, one is either PIC or SIC, or receiving instruction with the appropriate endorsement of an instructor, or solo.
A safety pilot may be the pilot in command, or may log pilot in command. We can have a separate, extended discussion about logging SIC time if the thread wishes to go in that direction, but a safety pilot may be the pilot in command by assignment or agreement, and thus log pilot in command of an aircraft requiring more than one crewmember under the regulations under which the flight is conducted, but that has to do with the requirement for a safety pilot, and the agreement of the pilot's involved. A safety pilot may merely be the second in command, and thus unable to log PIC. If one is going to log that time, when acting as safety pilot, by necessity of the regulation, it must be PIC, or SIC, as one of the components of a logbook entry include the type of pilot experience, and pilot experience is solo, PIC, SIC, or instruction received.
"Safety pilot" is not a type of pilot experience under 14 CFR 61.51(e). One could be pilot in command or second in command of a flight as safety pilot, but if one is going to log the time, one must state the type of pilot experience. Which of the types of experience one may log depends on the specifics of the operation in which one has been a safety pilot; it could be PIC or SIC.
Originally Posted by
rickair7777
Also 61.57... lets say you have neither a complex or high-perf endorsement but your buddy does. But you both have an ASEL PPL and are both landing current. You both go up together in his centurion, and he lets you make three landings. Does that reset your ASEL landing currency?
Yup. He's PIC and you can be sole manipulator. You need endorsements to be PIC but not to manipulate the controls. Is that what the FAA intended, maybe not but that's what the reg says.
There is a difference between ACTING as pilot in command, and LOGGING pilot in command.
To log the time as pilot in command, one must be rated in the aircraft. One may be without the proper endorsement for a high performance aircraft or complex aircraft, but an endorsement is not a rating. It's an endorsement. One may be without that endorsement, and still log the time, because if one holds a private pilot certificate, with single engine land category and class privilege, one is rated in the airplane. One may log the time as PIC, but one may not ACT as PIC. Acting as PIC, and logging PIC, are not the same thing. One be act as PIC (which means one is the pilot in command), yet be unable to log the time. One may be able to log the time as PIC, but be unable to ACT as PIC. Acting as PIC and logging PIC are different things, and should not be confused.
A private pilot who does not hold an endorsement for high perfornace or complex, or conventional gear (tailwheel), may log time in aircraft that require those endorsements, as sole manipulator of the controls, if the pilot is rated in the aircraft (eg, airplane, single engine land), even though one cannot act as pilot in command in those aircraft. Conversely, one might be the pilot in command of such as aircraft on a day VFR flight, but be unable to log the time. But that's not the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread is a pilot who is NOT rated in the aircraft. That person cannot log the time as sole manipulator of the controls. That person cannot be safety pilot. That person is not qualified in the aircraft and does not hold category or class ratings, and thus can't act as PIC, or log PIC. Nor can that person log SIC in the aircraft. As pilot experience must be included in the log entry (not simply "total time," then the only other possibility for logging time in an aircraft for which one is not rated is instruction received. One can't be solo (one isn't rated), and thus to log the time one will need to show it as instruction received, and this with the endorsement of a qualified, appropriately rated instructor.
Originally Posted by
rickair7777
FARs do not paint a consistent implied picture about logging total time, and do not address it explicitly either.
Again, all that said, I would encourage aspiring professionals to only log time which is generally accepted in industry, ie FAR or OPSPEC Solo, PIC, SIC, Dual, or "required crewmember"
The regulation absolutely does paint a consistent picture of logging time, as does the plethora of FAA Chief Legal Counsel letters of interpretation that are freely available to anyone who wishes to lift a finger to read them and learn for himself or herself. Moreover, both do explicitly address the subject..
One may not understand the regulation, but this is not an indictment on the regulation, but the individual who has not taken the time to learn the regulation, it's interpretation, and it's application. One may be ignorant of the regulation, but one is still required to abide the regulation, as just with all regulation or law, ignorance is not an excuse.
One who logs time in an aircraft for which one holds no rating will certainly be perceived as ignorant, and yet, without excuse.