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Old 11-23-2022, 04:56 AM
  #71  
MaxQ
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
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Just a couple thoughts from someone who has never been to The Netherlands.
A post gave a link to a Farm Journal article about the Govt. shutting down farms due to combat climate change. The article actually speaks of the direct pollution of nitrogen, not climate change. A small quibble though as I took his main point as the Govt taking direct action of closing some of "the means of production" that a socialist Govt would elsewise actually own. Kind of a hybrid situation, but it appears to be Govt regulatory action that has dramatic impact on private business in order to address a pollution problem.

Hubcapped went and researched it some, using Govt sources. On one hand it can be said that, yeah "they" will present it as a way to justify their decisions and actions. On the other hand it can be said that the Govt would present their observations, conclusions, and actions with a view encompassing that of all citizens versus just those of a specific business, or business in general. Farm Journal most likely would take a stringent view regarding Govt/farmers and the BBC would likely try to just report the actions, without a lot of background.

My personal thoughts lack knowledge of the specifics, so they are general. Also, due to ignorance, I may make some assumptions (that I draw conclusions from) that simply aren't true. I will justify that in saying this is not a paper being submitted to Nature and I don't think anyone in the Netherlands will either care, note, nor long remember what I say here.

Obviously there is a serious pollution problem that the Govt is trying to mitigate.
Just a very quick read of the BBC link makes the attempts to address these problems seem quite drastic. I find it hard to believe that these are the first attempts. I assume that people have been grappling with this for some time. I don't buy into accusations that regulators are by nature evil people. I do know that some can be inflexible in applying rules/laws and that over time attitudes of conflicting parties can harden. When that happens proposed solutions, and the cooperation in finding solutions, become less malleable. Adjustments to how business is done gets delayed and delayed until a problem becomes a crisis, and then either a catastrophe occurs or the regulatory fix/action is draconian.
I obviously don't know if this is the case, but it fits what little I understand of human nature.

The Netherlands are a Democracy. If enough of the voting public thinks these actions of the Govt are overreach, they will pressure the Govt to change their actions, or even vote them out of office. If enough feel that these actions are needed....then it will probably be what they do. While any group may see something as wrong headed, they don't live under a dictatorship that has people shot or imprisoned. They have recognized rights and institutions that give them a voice.

Excargo points out that much of the land there is reclaimed from nature so as to make room for the population to live and make a living. I suspect this magnifies run-off problems involving waste material. It should also magnify the impact of pollution that is confined to a small space that lacks an outlet. Making an assumption, it strikes me they are bumping up against one of the true limits to growth that any civilization runs into...pollution. It then cascades into limits to productive output. Either you limit the source of the pollution, or the pollution itself will limit productive output in one way or another. Responsible thoughtful people attempt to deal with it while it is a problem. Unfortunately, by the time it is a recognizable problem it is unlikely that attempts to solve or mitigate will not involve hardships/costs.
There will be more and more of these issues as we have a worldwide economy that is based on monetized debt, so we need constant monetized growth to maintain a certain living standard. Which in the reality of the world, (rather than that of finance), means a constant growth in resource extraction/consumption and in our waste by products. It is obvious that there are limits to such growth.
Interesting times.


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