Originally Posted by
threeighteen
Honestly you keep downtrodding these pilots that have come here, mocking them, writing in a condescending prose that “they think they know what’s best and did a lot of research” and that “if they were so smart, why did they come here”
Well, a lot of them were only told the good about FedEx, and then also served a bunch of koolaid too. Then they got here and were shocked at how bad some aspects of our contract are.
I could say the same about you. You come across as a real jerk in a lot of your posts and say a lot of things I seriously doubt you would say to someones face.
Again, if you were talking to your friends about coming here and didn't ask to look at the contract, that is your fault. Blaming military pilots because they didn't see how good the contracts were at other airlines is simply deflecting your own deficiencies. So, we can talk about the deficiencies in our contract without casting blame, or we can continue arguing about who insulted whom.
Originally Posted by
threeighteen
I’ve been tracking this sub-forum for well over a decade and until this thread, there really hasn’t been a lot of discussion on just how bad the work rules are at FedEx until now. Are we as bad as ATI or other ACMI carriers? Absolutely not. But when it comes to work rules, we are nowhere near as good as the legacy carriers in most areas besides line bidding and vacation. This is pretty unacceptable considering we’ve never been through bankruptcy and we generate an epic amount of revenue per flight compared to a legacy carrier.
There have been many posts about the shortfalls in our contract prior to now. Those were usually referred to as the 12 angry men posts, so if you bought that, oh well.
Originally Posted by
threeighteen
nobody said every trip, I just gave the maximum number, and 84hrs is not an exaggeration. I’ve had extensions over 80hrs 3 times this year. That’s 10 days of precious time off that have been taken from me.
Which is still awful. 36hrs of obligation to cover for inadequate staffing/planning is still ridiculous. 12 or 14 hours (enough to be released into rest and then operate back to base) should be the absolute max for domestic. 36 would be barely ok for international.
Only if you call in fatigued. Then you get to deal with the DO trying to coax you into flying anyway. And then if you still manage to man up and say no, you have to see if your fatigue report gets approved for pay.
For the majority of reservists, it is. Exception being the small amount of pilots in lax/oak/anc/cgn. And in MEM they can make you do a 1hr callout… talk about a short short short leash.
On the other hand: All reserve at UA is 12hrs unless converted to short call, they’re probably going to be getting rid of their ASTBY on their next contract, and Delta is gonna be 18hrs if their TA passes…
For anyone not over 45 getting hired here today, the A plan is likely to only be worth 17% or less of their income at 60 years old. But agree your math checks for someone retiring today. The A plan cap needs to be adjusted back to above 50% income replacement like it was in 1999 when this company was even less efficient, less profitable, and had 3 pilots to pay on most of the airplanes.
It doesn’t need to be “either dollars or QOL”
We can absolutely get dollars and quality of life without conceding anything like we have for the past 20 years. Delta has just proven despite their poor company financials that getting both without concessions is 100% attainable.
Below is what the poster I quoted said. I highlighted a couple of items you mentioned since you said you didn't see a single half truth.
Above you complained about the fatigue call. Well yes, you have to man up and call in fatigued if you truly are fatigued. If you are afraid of the DO, then you have other issues. I have done it many times, and it really is no big deal. As far as pay goes, the FRMG has been fairly consistent in paying pilots for their fatigue calls. You do realize that it comes out of your sick bank first, and then after the FRMG reviews that situation, your bank can be restored by them. This is what happens most of the time.
Originally Posted by
KC10 FATboy
FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.
FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance
There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.
Notice that on the involuntary extension it was stated that you could be extended up to 3.5 days and this happens especially for the international folks. Well, it ONLY happens to the international folks, not the domestic folks. Everyone is also leaving out the fact that if that happens, you get 150% for the first 12 hours of extra BLG, and 200% for everything after that. So, it doesn't just happen in a vacuum without any repercussions for the company. That is why there were quite a few of those international pilots asking to be extended even thought they were in hotel lockdowns.
Where we seem to agree is that we can make things better without giving up one thing for another. Now, instead of pilots trying to divide us by military/civilian background or saying one group of pilots is at fault for the shortfalls of the contract, wouldn't it be better if we all tried to recognize that even if we disagree, we all want improvements. Now, I think I am going to start my holiday celebrations early. Merry Christmas and here is to hoping we can all work for the contract we have earned and deserve.