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So the new CA and his newbie crew will probably get it in…. I sure hope for all of our behalf. But I’m telling you guys who think the NAT’s are just like going to Birmingham for the 50th time…. They aren’t. It’s very unforgiving overseas. ATC doesn’t look out for you, not to mention the language barrier. You have to be familiar with where you are and there’s no time to dig into the books when the crap hits the fan.
I’ve been across the pond many times. I was an instructor in the Navy and did checks across the pond and pacific. The NAT tracks are different and the ability to monumentally screw the pooch exponentially increases when things go wrong, with no help and no quick diverts w/ no familiar ATC there to hold your hand.
I thought I knew it all. I was an ER guy for many years back in the day. I learned so much from the old timers…. Former Pan Am guys, NWA guys who did those routes for 2-3 decades. They were great. I listened. I learned. Thought I knew it all. Not even close. You can say what you want…. But someone w/ minimum time is not prepared for that dark night w/ Mr Grim Reaper comes knocking.
It goes bad, fast.
Oh for crying out loud the NATs are not an Apollo mission. What you described is a CRM exercise for the Captain. At no point is there any rush to make a decision. 500nm to the alternate? Sounds like a 3 man crew has time to coordinate and plan for that approach.Originally Posted by Tailhookah
Probably for most of the time. But here’s a scenario…. The junior CA will be on reserve for a long time. So this Easter, he’s on rsv and gets called out for a trip to Europe. The 2 FO’s are also very junior/new. At 30W approximately 3am, they blow a motor…. New CA is in the rack…. Or really first class on the ER. The ER has lots of power and will flip upside down quickly if an engine failure at altitude happens…. The only credible alternate is 500 miles south at Lajes…. BIKF is clobbered. There’s damage to the hydraulics due to the emergency. I can ensure you a new guy w/ 1515 hours (just happened at Delta new hire last week/non military guy) hasn’t ever been to LPLA. Has no idea what it looks like or that it’s usually blowing sideways w/ moderate turbulence to touchdown on most nights/days.So the new CA and his newbie crew will probably get it in…. I sure hope for all of our behalf. But I’m telling you guys who think the NAT’s are just like going to Birmingham for the 50th time…. They aren’t. It’s very unforgiving overseas. ATC doesn’t look out for you, not to mention the language barrier. You have to be familiar with where you are and there’s no time to dig into the books when the crap hits the fan.
I’ve been across the pond many times. I was an instructor in the Navy and did checks across the pond and pacific. The NAT tracks are different and the ability to monumentally screw the pooch exponentially increases when things go wrong, with no help and no quick diverts w/ no familiar ATC there to hold your hand.
I thought I knew it all. I was an ER guy for many years back in the day. I learned so much from the old timers…. Former Pan Am guys, NWA guys who did those routes for 2-3 decades. They were great. I listened. I learned. Thought I knew it all. Not even close. You can say what you want…. But someone w/ minimum time is not prepared for that dark night w/ Mr Grim Reaper comes knocking.
It goes bad, fast.
If all this is so difficult long time WB FOs would be excellent upgrade candidates yet they are the #1 demographic for training issues during upgrade.