Originally Posted by
threeighteen
You’re turning the classic “screw the new guys, I need to get mine” argument around and putting it on the new guys.
The new guys haven’t had a chance to shoot down a contract yet. The old guys have had three opportunities to fix the pension. 2006, 2011, and 2015. But instead of holding the line to do it, they rolled over and voted yes on the first offer each time. You even admitted to voting yes on some of those awful deals.
Why should the new guys accept more concessions, or even a deal that's worth less than what all of us deserve in order to give the old guys a golden parachute pension bump when the old guys voted yes on concessionary and substandard contracts in 06, 11, and 15?
The old guys have had some of the best careers of any of their peers in the industry (especially the last 2-3 years, holy crap. Nothing like making peanuts on first year pay sitting next to a guy who's too cheap to grab the van tip for the newbie but happy to show you his pay stub that shows $500k YTD income and it's not even June yet) and now they want to choke the golden goose on their way out and leave the new guys with the corpse… any concession is ok as long as they get their pension.
No junior guy wants to “screw” the old guys, but we sure as hell don’t want to sacrifice the future to fund the retirement of the guys who were too feckless to improve it the last three contracts either. We’d all love to see all of us get a better retirement plan, but unlike the old guys we’re not interested in trading away the few work rules we have left in order to achieve that. Nor are we willing to accept pay rates that don’t lead the industry by a mile to achieve that.
And nobody owes you gratitude for not allowing the pilot group to be divided by two different retirement plans in 2015. You didn’t go above and beyond by doing that, that was literally the minimum expectation and you barely met it.
Whatever happened to leave a place better than you found it? Don’t throw a match on the squadron on your way out?
No new guy has “gotten theirs” yet. Not even close. They’re still trying to recover from training pay which, even at $4000/mo is less purchasing power than you had when it was $2000/mo.
You’re delusional.
Also your time on the panel is 100% irrelevant.
My time on the panel is not irrelevant. It took me 8 years to get to right seat wide body pay, then I was stagnated for 5 years (plus one more for the over 60 guys jumping back ahead of me) before I could hold Captain. How is that irrelevant when we are comparing careers to people who went straight to the right seat of a wide body? Again, the entitled youngsters, who were handed right seat wide body pay as a new hire have zero appreciation for those that went before them.
You can see the rest of my explanation above.
Also, if the retirement is fixed, the young guys will benefit as well. How is that "screwing the young guys" by fixing the retirement? I would say that is leaving the place better than you found it, as you want.
I don't want any concessions either. I never said we should give anything up to fund the retirement, so don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.
You will have your chance to vote no. Let's see if you use it.